Christian Living

PART 2 ETERNAL SECURITY

by james rondinone 
10/01/16
Free to Share
Author requests article critique

  Message Writer
  Hire Writer

Tweet

Can A Believer Lose Their Salvation?                              

●In The Old Testament Can A Person Who Believes In God As He Was Revealed Lose Their Salvation?

●Did The Following People Lose Their Salvation

...You Decide

CHAPTER 2

 In The Old Testament Can A Person Who Believes In God As He Was Revealed Lose Their Salvation?

There is a view that individuals who believed in God in the Old Testament could lose their salvation; the idea being that with the loss or departure of the on-resting Spirit and His benefits, the person’s destiny after physical death would be to go to a compartment of Hades called torments.

Hell (Hades): The Temporary Realm of the Dead

Luke 16:19-31

       Two men were in different financial and spiritual places. One man was rich and without a relationship with God, while the other was poor but had a relationship with God.  When the rich man died he went to a place in hell called torments, and when the beggar died he went to a place in hell called Abraham’s bosom or Paradise. In the midst of great pain and suffering, the rich man looked up and could see Abraham far away, yet within hearing distance. He asked him to send the poor man, Lazarus, with water so that his tongue could be cooled. Abraham said that this was not possible because there was a vast, impassable, and permanent abyss between them so that no one could go from one place to the other.He then begged Abraham to send Lazarus to his father’s house to testify to his five brothers.  Abraham replied that they could listen to the words of Moses and the prophets, but if they chose not to accept their message nothing would persuade them to repent.

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. 

       It is believed by many theologians that our Lord emptied the Paradise part of Hades of its people when He arose from the dead and returned to the Father (John 20:17; Ephesians 4:8-10). Today the word paradise refers to heaven where Jesus reigns in glory (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:1-4). Even though torments was a place of punishment for the Old Testament saints there will be a place of future punishment for all those who didn’t believe in God as He was revealed called the lake of fire. One day in the future, the sea and the grave will give up the bodies, and Hades will give up the souls (Revelation 20:13), thus reuniting the two, and the lost will stand before Christ in judgment (Revelation 20:10-15).

        Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (Ephesians 4:8-10)

       We now know where the spirits of those who died before Christ’s resurrection went.

       However the question remains, can a person who believed in God in the Old Testament lose their salvation?

It appears that not everyone who believed in God received the on-resting Spirit. It is also true that some who received the on-resting Spirit had it depart from them.

What is the basis for entrance to Paradise upon physical death – is it the non-departure of the on-resting Spirit or believing in God as He was revealed?

With this in mind let’s take a look at various people in the Old Testament who believed in God as He was revealed.

Did they lose their salvation?

But before we do this I would like to share a brief story with you. In my early years of my walk with God following my salvation I attended a church called the Church of Bible Understanding. This church was located on one of the main streets in the city where I grew up. On a particular day I saw the sign for worship, wrote down the hours for attendance, and showed up for what I thought would be a normal church service (e.g. singing, teaching, offering, prayer). When I walked in one of the first things I noticed was there were no pews. Instead the small room was filled with regular chairs which were placed in a circle. I sat in one of them and noticed that there weren’t many in attendance, probably about fifteen. Some of the other things which I became aware of was there was not a staging area for someone to speak from, no area for musical instruments, and not even a cross made out of wood.

Eventually one of the members of the group said, let’s get started and begin with prayer. After which he asked us to open our bibles and turn to a particular book and verse. His method was one of reading a verse and then discussing some of the words in it. As he picked out certain words he would ask if anyone had a thought as to what the word or words meant. In some cases he would respond by saying that was pretty close and at other times he would politely say that what was said was not quite the meaning. While this was going on all of a sudden someone opened the front door of the meeting room and spoke out quite loud words that were something like, I’m sorry I haven’t been here for a while, because I have done some things which I shouldn’t have and I know I have lost my salvation.

To my surprise I had never heard anything like this. I can honestly say that I didn’t even know what this meant. The same person, who opened with prayer, who I assume might have been the pastor, asked this person to confess her sins to God, which she did. He followed this up by saying something like now that you have repented to God you have regained your salvation. This person proceeded to then sit in one of the vacant chairs and hear the remaining part of the teachings. When the pastor ended his teaching a short time of prayer followed and then all of us left.

Two things stood out to me. The first was I didn’t understand what the message was about. There was no title, and neither was there any continuity of thought because instead of teaching with sentence declarations all we did was look at certain words. The second thing that stood out was this idea that a believer could lose their salvation, because of sin. This was pretty scary to think that a believer could be on their way to heaven and then because of sin lose this reality and wind up going to a place of intense suffering forever.

Hopefully this study will help us understand what verses are used to support the view that salvation can be lost and how these same verses are used to support the view that salvation cannot be lost.

CHAPTER 3

Did The Following People Lose Their Salvation?

Read the content that follows along with the suggested scripture reading, if any. Then read the responses of “yes” and “no” to the question posed. Hopefully, this will provide you with a further awareness regarding the basis for believing whether a person who believed in God in the Old Testament can or can’t lose their salvation.

The Children Of Israel

The children of Israel possibly numbering over two million people having been slaves in Egypt for 430 years were being brought out from under this oppression by a man, who God called, named Moses. After being pursued by Pharaoh’s army after their departure from Egypt and being subsequently delivered by God at the Red Sea, Israel recognized and honored God, and initially submitted to the leadership of Moses.

And Israel saw that great work which the Lord did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared the Lord, and believed the Lord, and his servant Moses. (Exodus 14:31)

To review, there was no indication that most of those Israelites who had a relationship with God ever received the on-resting Spirit. Indeed, they were so rebellious and disobedient during the their wilderness wanderings that only those who were 20 years or younger when they left Egypt, along with faithful Caleb and Joshua, were allowed to enter the Promised Land of Canaan.

       Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me: Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, and Joshua the son of Nun: for they have wholly followed the Lord. (Numbers 32:11-12)

Did The Children Of Israel Lose Their Salvation?

NO

• They did not lose their salvation.


• Possibly, over 1,000,000 Jews believed in God, but did not receive the on-resting Spirit, and their belief in Him secured their destiny of entering Paradise.


• Continual sin prevented them from entering the Promised Land of Canaan, but did not keep them from entering Paradise.

YES

• Yes, they lost their salvation because they never received the on-resting Spirit.


• Losing one’s salvation refers to losing the ability to enter Paradise at death.


• Over 1,000,000 Jews went to a compartment in hell referred to as torments.

                Did Sampson’s habitual sin of fornication cause him to lose his salvation?

Sampson

Suggested Reading: Judges Chapters 13-16

Sampson was one of the judges of Israel, whom the Lord blessed as he was growing up. At various times the on-resting Spirit would upon him. While Sampson was used mightily by God to defeat Israel’s enemy, the Philistines, he unfortunately had a propensity to engage in fornication with foreign women. One of them was Delilah, who eventually betrayed the secret of his great physical strength, resulting in the departure of the on-resting Spirit. Subsequently, he was unable to defend himself against capture by the Philistines, who gauged out his eyes.

Sampson was a person who listened to his own conscience and followed after the lusts of his own heart, longing for and pursuing Delilah, whose betrayal resulted in both physical and spiritual blindness. His condition was the sad result of his own choices and caused him to exhibit a dishonorable testimony to others. On a certain day 3000 Philistines were gathered together to offer a great sacrifice to their god, Dagon, and so they called for Sampson to be brought out of confinement so they could laugh and make fun of him. As he stood between two middle pillars, which held up the house they were gathered in, he called out to God asking to be empowered by him one more time in order to collapse the pillars. God heard and answered his prayer resulting in the death of not only Samson, but all of the Philistines.

And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the Lord blessed him. And the Spirit of the Lord began to move him at times in the camp of Dan between Zorah and Eshtaol. (Judges 13:24-25)

And she said, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he awoke out of his sleep, and said, I will go out as at other times before, and shake myself. And he wist not that the Lord was departed from him. (Judges 16:20)

       And it came to pass, when their hearts were merry, that they said, Call for Samson, that he may make us sport. And they called for Samson out of the prison house; and he made them sport: and they set him between the pillars. And Samson said unto the lad that held him by the hand, Suffer me that I may feel the pillars whereupon the house standeth, that I may lean upon them. Now the house was full of men and women; and all the lords of the Philistines were there; and there were upon the roof about three thousand men and women, that beheld while Samson made sport. And Samson called unto the Lord, and said, O Lord God, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes. And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left. And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life. (Judges 16:25-30)

Did Sampson Lose His Salvation?

NO

• Sampson did not lose his salvation.


• The Spirit departed because of continual sin, and later returned as a result of his final prayer.


• His belief in God was the basis for his destiny to Paradise.


• The receiving, departing, and receiving again of the on-resting Spirit had nothing to do with securing his eternal destiny.

YES AND THEN NO

• Initially, Sampson lost his salvation with the loss of the on-resting Spirit, but regained it again as evidenced by God answering his prayer to avenge himself of the Philistines.


• His destiny to Paradise was secure.

                   Could it be that the first king of Israel lost his salvation?

King Saul

Suggested Reading: 1 Samuel 9:1-27; 10:1-10

Saul was shown the word of God and anointed as king by the prophet/judge Samuel.  Samuel instructed him to go on a journey, on which he would eventually meet up with a company of prophets, at which point the Spirit of the Lord would come upon him and he would prophesy with them.

And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.(1 Samuel 10:6)

During Saul’s reign, the Israelites gained victories over many of their foes. However, Saul sometimes disobeyed the divine instructions that were relayed to him via the prophet/judge Samuel.  In one instance, he was commanded to destroy all the people and animals of the Amalekites, including their king, Agag, but he decided to spare him along with the best of the cattle. After Saul repeatedly rebelled against God’s directives, Samuel told him that God had rejected him as king. Samuel was then instructed by God to visit the sons of a man named Jesse, one of whom would be chosen to be the next king of Israel, and so David the youngest, became God’s next choice.

Because of Saul’s continual self-reliance and disobedience, the on-resting Spirit left him and an evil spirit from the Lord came upon him.

But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. (1 Samuel 16:14)

Did Saul Lose His Salvation?

NO

• Saul did not lose his salvation.


• The Spirit departed because of continual sin. 


• Belief in God was the basis for his destiny to Paradise.

YES

• Saul lost his salvation with the loss of the on-resting Spirit.


• Losing one’s salvation refers to the loss of entering Paradise and consignment to the place of torments.

        If the word declared that a king of Judah did evil in the sight of the Lord, then surely this king lost his salvation, right?

King Jehoash

Jehoash was one of many kings of the two tribes of the Southern Kingdom of Judah, and initially he did what was right in the sight of the Lord, being instructed by Jehoiada, the high priest. Unfortunately after Jehoiada died, the petitions of the princes of Judah who urged him to worship idols influenced King Jehoash; and he began to follow the ways of Jeroboam I, the first king of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, by entering into idolatry.

In the seventh year of Jehu Jehoash began to reign; and forty years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Zibiah of Beer-sheba. And Jehoash did that which was right in the sight of the Lord all his days wherein Jehoiada the priest instructed him. (2 Kings 12:1-2)

…Jehoash… And he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord; he departed not from all the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel sin: but he walked therein. (2 Kings 13:10-11)

Now after the death of Jehoiada came the princes of Judah, and made obeisance to the king. Then the king hearkened unto them. And they left the house of the Lord God of their fathers, and served groves and idols: and wrath came upon Judah and Jerusalem for this their trespass. (2 Chronicles 24:17-18)

Did King Jehoash Lose His Salvation?

NO

• King Jehoash did not lose his salvation because his belief in God was the basis for his destiny to Paradise.

Over time, the Northern Kingdom of Israel had 19 kings and the Southern Kingdom of Judah had 19 kings and one queen. Belief in God as He was revealed determined each person’s destiny, whether Paradise or the place of torments.

YES

• King Jehoash lost his salvation, because he never received the on-resting Spirit.


• Initially he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, inferring that he followed God’s directives, but there is no record that he ever received the on-resting Spirit.


• Later, he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord, and if he had received the on-resting Spirit, the Spirit would have probably departed.


• Over time, the Northern Kingdom of Israel had 19 kings and the Southern Kingdom of Judah had 19 kings and one queen.  If the receiving and keeping of the on-resting Spirit is the basis for a person to enter Paradise, it is possible that as many as 32 kings subsequently went to the place of torments.

                 Does a person’s wealth determine where they will spend eternity?

The Beggar

Suggested Reading: Luke 16:19-31   

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is recorded in the New Testament, but is included here because the Spirit was still on-resting at this time. Two men from vastly different backgrounds; one rich, without a relationship with God; the other poor, but with a relationship with God are contrasted. When they died, the rich man went to a place in hell called torments, but the beggar went to a place in hell called Abraham’s bosom or Paradise.

There was a certain rich man…And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus…And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments. (Luke 16:19-20,22-23)

Did The Beggar Lose His Salvation?

NO

• The beggar did not lose his salvation


• He must have believed in God as he was revealed.


• Upon physical death he went to a compartment of Hades called Paradise.


• There is no indication of the on-resting Spirit or that he had fellowship with God. 

NO

• The beggar did not lose his salvation.


• He went to a compartment of Hades called Paradise.


• Even though there is no record of him receiving the on-resting Spirit, the Spirit must have been upon him at physical death.

I think that an awareness of the on-resting Spirit and the fact that He (the Holy Spirit) could depart because of habitual sin seems to provide the basis for some in leadership to believe that a person’s salvation could be lost. If this is the case then it is understandable as to why many in leadership believe that a New Testament saint can lose their salvation. In the sections that follow we will look at whether a New Testament saint can or cannot lose their salvation.

 I hope that you are enjoying this study as much as I have the privilege of writing about it.

Before we take a look at the next chapter I would like to leave you with this story.

When I began to speak on this topic of eternal security in front of a small gathering of believers I thought they would be excited to hear what I had to say. I mentioned to them that there were two prevalent views and that we should take a look at both. Upon hearing this, there were a few that vehemently objected to this idea. They believed that if a New Testament believer continued in habitual sin, then at some point the Holy Spirit would depart, end of story. I explained to them that they had every right to believe in this view. However, I mentioned to them that some of the other believers thought just the opposite. In their mind the sin issue was taken care of by Christ on the cross. Therefore habitual sin would result in a loss of fellowship with God the Father and alienation from the filling of the Holy Spirit, the result of which would be divine discipline, but not the departure of the Spirit.

After much ranting and raving by some of the attendees I proceeded to teach on this topic. Eventually a few walked out. This series was to last for about five weeks. I would post in the local newspaper the title of the message for the upcoming weekly gathering. It was not until a new topic was posted in the local newspaper did those who left return. And when they did there was clear displeasure as to how I could teach on any topic from opposing views.

As time went on I continued to teach on different topics from opposing views. This pattern of response by some went on for a while. Eventually they stopped attending altogether. I was really surprised by this, having myself been involved in a church in my earlier years that like them were intolerant of any doctrinal views which were contrary to those they espoused. Pastors or fellow believers who had become my friends would be quick to respond in an angry way if they found out that I held to a view that was contrary to the doctrinal platform of the church.

I do agree that there are some truths that I would consider absolute such as: Christ is God, being one of the members of the trinity, with the other two being God the Father and God the Holy Spirit; Christ was raised from the dead after 3 days never to dies again; Christ died for the sins of the whole world thus satisfying the justice of God; the pure gospel is repenting of one’s sins to God the Father and believing in his Son for salvation, etc. Along with this there are some doctrines which most Christian churches agree on such as redemption, forgiveness, the trinity, etc. However, there are many doctrines concerning which there are clear divergences such as: Is a believer allowed to drink alcohol? Are Christians commanded to tithe? Can a believer lose their salvation? Are prayer tongues the evidence of the baptism (filling) of the Holy Spirit? Have the gifts of the Spirit ceased? Are the offices of the church only held by men? Is there such an event known as the Rapture? etc.

We might be surprised as to how much is not in common in regards to the doctrines of Christian churches.

With this in mind you would think that believers would welcome divergent teaching on biblical topics of which many Christian churches disagree on.

Well that’s my story.

Follow this series: on-line at

Weekly Messages: https://www.blockislandtimes.com/affiliate/block-island-christian-fellowship/12074

Author Page: https://www.facebook.com/James-Rondinone-560602797425740/

Website: http://www.makingtheonerightchoice.com/