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If you were the only........

For those who like to discuss and debate theology. This is a forum for people who enjoy strong and lively debate with people who may not be likeminded. Participants are requested to always treat other opinions with respect.

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Colswann1
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If you were the only........

Postby Colswann1 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:56 pm

If you were the only sinner in the whole wide world, and all the rest were righteous, do you believe Jesus would have come and done just for you what he did for all humankind on the Cross? If so, why?
Colin Swann

Jesus’ love is constant and never wavers.

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby Opinion8ed » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:34 pm

I know what the answer to this question is supposed to be because we frequently, and somewhat tritely, often say, "God loves you so much that if you were the only person on earth He would still die for you." As you ask here, REALLY? That is an interesting question and being a little contrary and Opinion8ed I want to look at it a little deeper.

Firstly, I wonder if you could clarify 'righteous' when you say that all the other people are righteous. Are we talking about people who live completely holy lives with pure hearts and clean hands? People who can say, Proverbs 20:9 Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”?

Are we talking about a world where all people are basically 'Adams'? They have choice but have chosen not to sin. Do they have a command which they could disobey and only one has chosen to disobey? They must. Without a law to break how could the one be a sinner? If Adam and Eve hadn't sinned, the command to not eat of the tree of life would carry on to everyone with each person making their choice to obey or not.

If we look at the OT God chose to destroy all the wicked and save only Noah and his family and at other times the same thing happened. The concept of "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lot" seems to indicate that to preserve the righteous God would destroy the wicked.

If we look at the OT God chose to destroy all the wicked and save only Noah and his family and at other times the same thing happened. The concept of "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lot" seems to indicate that to preserve the righteous God would destroy the wicked.

On the other hand we have the case of Abraham pleading for Sodom and God answering that if He found a certain number of righteous people there He would not destroy the city,
"32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”
He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.” Genesis 18:32 In this case we have God sparing the wicked because of the righteous. Of course this is not a story of eternal salvation but of physical life.

But we also have the case of the one lamb who has wandered out of the fold but is sought and returned and the prodigal son who has left his home to live a sinful life but returns and is welcomed.

So we can clearly say that God loves the individual. The question really is what is required for this one sinners redemption. Is it the shedding of innocent blood or perhaps simply repentance?

I can't finish my post right now so I will just put this up and see if anyone has any thoughts form it. I do have some other thoughts involving verses such as:

John 5:21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Romans 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Opinion8ed

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby Colswann1 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:58 am

Opinion8ed wrote:Firstly, I wonder if you could clarify 'righteous' when you say that all the other people are righteous. Are we talking about people who live completely holy lives with pure hearts and clean hands? People who can say, Proverbs 20:9 Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”?


I was suggesting that if Adam and Eve had not sinned and all of humanity had have followed in the same vein, and you became the first sinner (maybe through pride similar to Satan's fall), and the only blacksheep of humanity would Jesus come just for you and do what he did for the whole human race? if so, why?
Colin Swann

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby Colswann1 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:56 am

Opinion8ed wrote:I know what the answer to this question is supposed to be because we frequently, and somewhat tritely, often say, "God loves you so much that if you were the only person on earth He would still die for you." As you ask here, REALLY? That is an interesting question and being a little contrary and Opinion8ed I want to look at it a little deeper.


Yes, it's because of the above that I posted this. I have struggled with the thought of Jesus coming to save me if I was the only sinner to save. The best help came from my wife Gill who reminded me of what my own earthly father did as a young man with a family of 3 kids. He risked his own life to save a little girl who had fallen into a fast flowing river; Gill suggested that Jesus would have done what was necessary to save me. She also reminded me, that she knew I would willingly stand in the place of anyone of my own children who was dying and die in their place, and again reminded me that Jesus wouldn't do less for me.
However, I was hoping you theologian-type people would give some sound scriptures to cover this.
Colin Swann

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby Paula22466 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:03 pm

Colswann1 wrote:If you were the only sinner in the whole wide world, and all the rest were righteous, do you believe Jesus would have come and done just for you what he did for all humankind on the Cross? If so, why?


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing" Luke 15:4-5

Honestly I think this question is silly and purely speculative. Having said that, I think Jesus would have died just for one person. I believe God loves each one of us as if we were His own children. I only have one child and I would not hesitate to give my life for her.
Every thought is a seed. If you plant crab apples don't count on harvesting Golden Delicious. - Author Unknown

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby Colswann1 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:45 pm

Paula22466 wrote:Honestly I think this question is silly and purely speculative.


Maybe you should start up a new subject, if you need to comment on something you appear is almost too trivially silly for your huge intellect or should that be ego?
Colin Swann

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby tomoral » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:16 pm

Yes, Jesus would have died for me, just as if I had 100 children and 99 of them were righteous and one was a sinner, I would die for the sinning child. This might not make sense to others, but it makes sense to me. lol :?
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Re: If you were the only........

Postby lish1936 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:22 pm

Paula22466 wrote:Honestly I think this question is silly


I say without ill will or rancor...

The Kind Shepherd whose words you quoted would never have considered this question as "silly."
I learned early on in school that NO question is silly. To suggest such reflects on the one who thinks so.

With that said, the Scripture you quoted was an appropriate one in response to Colin's question.
In fact, the verses that follow further substantiates the importance of that "one."

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby tomoral » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:24 pm

My question is, if the whole world was righteous except for one lone sinner, would God have sent His only begotten Son to die for sin in the first place?

Just wondering.....
Last edited by tomoral on Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you were the only........

Postby Come forth » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:24 pm

There is no such thing as a 'silly' question; although I confess that I often think some questions put to me are 'silly'. This truth reflects a bad attitude in ME, not the one asking the question. Maybe it also reflects why Jesus had to die for me.

I know the answer to the question is yes; but the bigger question for me is, "Do I actually believe it in my heart of hearts and does it change anything about the way I live my life?"

I've recently been going through a struggle with my faith over some personal issues; maybe this question, as I reflect on it, could help to bring light into those issues.

Thanks for asking this, Col; it's at least timely for me.

Blessings, Graham.
May we all get eyes to see and ears to hear,
A Revelation of His Word, crystal clear.
Admitting our need to be drawn in,
Less of self, more of Him.

My prayer for us all.
God bless us with the Revelation of His Word, Graham
http://www.shekinahcloud.com/page/page/8464330.htm

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby lish1936 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:37 pm

Lynn wrote:My question is, if the whole world was righteous except for one lone sinner, would God have sent His only begotten Son to die for sin in the first place?


My answer is yes, Lynn, because Christ said, "I and my Father are One" (John 10:30). When Christ spoke the words quoted in an earlier post (Luke 15), I believe He echoed the voice and the sentiment of God the Father.

For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know His commandment is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak (John 12:50).


That's what I believe. Others may have a different take. :D

Lillian
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I love to write. Nothing escapes the crush I have on the written word. I'm hooked on words!!

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby tomoral » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:58 am

Good answer Lillian, and one that comforts me greatly. I thought the answer was yes, also, just needed a little clarification.

Blessings, Lynn
God Bless the beasts and the children
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Children are our tomorrow
Keep them daily from the sorrow
Of the beasts in life

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby Paula22466 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:53 pm

Colswann1 wrote:
Paula22466 wrote:Honestly I think this question is silly and purely speculative.


Maybe you should start up a new subject, if you need to comment on something you appear is almost too trivially silly for your huge intellect or should that be ego?


Please forgive me if I offended you by my answer. I did not intend to say you are "silly," but I can see how my comment could be construed as such. It's just that I've heard this question many times and being the analytical person that I am, it always sounds very illogical and unsubstantiated. So,I am hoping you accept my apology.
Every thought is a seed. If you plant crab apples don't count on harvesting Golden Delicious. - Author Unknown

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby Come forth » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:42 pm

I have been pondering this question quite a lot and it is a lot more profound than it first appears.

Many of our so called 'wisdoms' would say that it makes no sense for the answer to be yes. It would not be a 'cost effective' sacrifice; one life gains only one life. The time span from the sacrifice to me means that 2000 years of rightousness brings no return on the deposit until I come along; imagine how I would feel being the one that blows it? Who do I then share the good news with? Everyone else has no need of it and live within it's protection anyway.

But it is within this very thought pattern that something wonderful is found; my relationship with a living God is indeed very personal and intimate. It is not like the father that rushes out into a swollen river by instinct to save a son caught in its grip. It's not like losing my life because I pushed someone out of the way of a speeding truck, only to slip and fall under its wheels myself. These talk of instinct or spontaneous bravery. God planned His death for me.

Incredible intimacy and personal relationship, one on One, a Father and His love for His son, me, brought home in a very personal way. And a togetherness that transcends all time and our understanding of values. The patient waiting of a Father who never gives up on His son and will wait as long as it takes until they are reunited and can enjoy each others company in private.

Yes, Dad would have done this JUST for me, because it is the only way He could show me beyond all doubt that He wants a personal relationship that goes beyond anything I could imagine. Then that personal intimacy brings me to a new ability to relate to others.

A 'silly' question or one without depth? I don't think so personally.

Blessings, Graham.
May we all get eyes to see and ears to hear,
A Revelation of His Word, crystal clear.
Admitting our need to be drawn in,
Less of self, more of Him.

My prayer for us all.
God bless us with the Revelation of His Word, Graham
http://www.shekinahcloud.com/page/page/8464330.htm

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Re: If you were the only........

Postby Colswann1 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:52 pm

Paula22466 wrote:Please forgive me if I offended you by my answer. I did not intend to say you are "silly," but I can see how my comment could be construed as such. It's just that I've heard this question many times and being the analytical person that I am, it always sounds very illogical and unsubstantiated. So,I am hoping you accept my apology.


Of course I forgive you, and please forgive me for my over re-action.
Colin Swann

Jesus’ love is constant and never wavers.

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