Once Saved Always Saved?

[evangelist-1]

There are many passages which lead one to believe that
man is totally INCAPABLE of believing in Jesus and His "foolish" gospel.

Prevenient grace is my preferred doctrine, which says that God must act first
by giving saving faith, and then the person is free to choose to believe
and continue in the faith, or not to believe, etc.

[cindyjo]

God's Love is the gift of Salvation wrapped up in Mercy and Grace.
Mercy is not receiving what we deserve - death and eternal separation from God.
Grace is receiving what we don't deserve - eternal life.
Jesus is God's gift to the world. John 3:16
To all that will believe.

When Jesus was at the tomb of Lazurus He asked the question "Do you believe this?" John 11: 25, 26 which says:
...I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die."

I believe this is written for our assurance that once we're saved we're always saved. We can choose to believe or not.

[rleavers]

I am very new to this so I apoligize for any offense in advance. I have read through the responses on this topic and it is quite interesting the different opinions that have been voiced. I have been in numerous disccussions on this topic over the years and like most debates there is a certain amount of merit to both veiws.
I personally hate the term "lose your salvation" I have lost my car keys, my wallet and numerous other things over the years.I never came close to losing my salvation. When you lose something, initially you are unaware that it is gone, then at some point you realize it is missing and go looking for it. I don't see that when refering to the greatest gift ever given to mankind. It is not something that could just not be there with out noticing it was gone. Salvation is an active relationship, if you are saved the Holy Spirit dwells within you, you are constantly in the presence of God.
If it is possible, and I am not convinced it is, the only way you could not be saved after truly being saved is to make a conscious descision to deny Christ, exorcise the Holy Spirit (I' not to sure how you would do that) and completly turn away from the sovereinty of God. The process is definatly not something that could sneek up on you and happen without you knowing it.
Once saved always saved? I'm leaning toward yes! "Lose" your salvation? Definitely not!
I agree with several of the posts there is a great difference between salvation (Justification by faith in Christ's sacrificial death on our behave for our sins) and sanctification the process of discipleship and growing in our righteousness through the work of the Holy Spirit. We can be saved and not be very good disciples, but you can't be a true disciple without being saved.

In Christ, Ralph
GOD is GOOD!!!

[lish1936]

Ralph,
I would say you did a pretty good job of summarizing my feelings, as you can see if
you read my posts on the subject.

Blessings,

Lillian

[Paula22466]

We can be saved and not be very good disciples, but you can't be a true disciple without being saved.

Hi Ralph, welcome. I'm not sure if I even believe this anymore, that is the part about a Christian being "not a very good disciple," some may call it being a carnal Christian. Romans 8:5-9, Romans 8:30, there are problems with this view but I wont go into it since it would take the OP off course.

"We all sin, but if we have been born of the Spirit, we are no longer slaves to that sin. We can no longer say to God, “I cannot help it. I am dominated by the power of sin.” If we are still in a condition of slavery to sin, then we are not regenerated"

[lish1936]

We can be saved and not be very good disciples, but you can't be a true disciple without being saved.

Hi Ralph, welcome. I'm not sure if I even believe this anymore, that is the part about a Christian being "not a very good disciple."

"We all sin, but if we have been born of the Spirit, we are no longer slaves to that sin. We can no longer say to God, “I cannot help it. I am dominated by the power of sin.” If we are still in a condition of slavery to sin, then we are not regenerated"

With all due respect , I see nothing wrong with Ralph's statement. Your quote from RC Sproul does not apply here. If so, the minute Peter denied Christ, lied about his association with the disciples, or cut off the ear of one of His accusers, he could no longer have been a disciple. A follower of Christ is not dominated by sin, but is always subject to its attack. That's why we must "resist" it, and "confess" it as the Scripture admonishes. If we were immune from sinning as disciples/followers, then there would be no need for 1John 1:9 or 1 John 2:1. We use these verses as tools for witnessing to the unbeliever, but this letter was written to believers.

Blessings,

Lillian

[Paula22466]

With all due respect , I see nothing wrong with Ralph's statement.

Hey lish, thanks for r-e-s-p-e-c-t (love that song). Please allow me to clarify. I did not say Ralph's statement was "wrong," I said I disagreed.

Your quote from RC Sproul does not apply here. If so, the minute Peter denied Christ, lied about his association with the disciples, or cut off the ear of one of His accusers, he could no longer have been a disciple.

I think the quote from Dr. Sproul aptly applies since the point of both his and my quotes are to say no regenerate Christian lives a life in slavery to sin. I believe you agree, since you said, "A follower of Christ is not dominated by sin."

Whether or not Ralph's comment meant to imply one can be a follower of Christ and not have a fruitful life with increasing righteousness, I cannot determine. Judging from the rest of his post I would say he probably agrees with me, as well as James 2:26.

Of course Christians will always struggle with sin (I wonder why you would think I believe Christians are "immune from sinning"). However, just like Peter, our lives should be, in evidence, looking more and more like Christ.

[lish1936]

We can be saved and not be very good disciples, but you can't be a true disciple without being saved

Hi Ralph, welcome. I'm not sure if I even believe this anymore, that is the part about a Christian being "not a very good disciple," some may call it being a carnal Christian...

RC Sproul wrote:"We all sin, but if we have been born of the Spirit, we are no longer slaves to that sin. We can no longer say to God, “I cannot help it. I am dominated by the power of sin.” If we are still in a condition of slavery to sin, then we are not regenerated"

I think the quote from Dr. Sproul aptly applies since the point of both his and my quotes are to say no regenerate Christian lives a life in slavery to sin.

I still think Sproul comments do not apply.


Key words:

Ralph...Saved, but not always a good disciple...

Sproul ...If saved, no longer slaves to sin. If slaves, not regenerated.

How does Sproul address the discipleship part? By saying no Christian is dominated by the power of sin? Of course not. Apples and oranges, in my view. Sproul addresess regeneration. Ralph and I are beyond that step to the next step of being a disciple. And sometimes regenerates are not always good disciples...Peter, for an example, doubting Thomas for another.

Oh, and one other point. The "no longer slaves to sin" part has more to do with the price Christ paid to redeem us from the marketplace of sin, and not so much about what we do to "unslave" ourselves. The statement is a status statement, and not condemnatory. "See," Christ's says. "I died so that you are no longer slaves and owned by sin."

Even, if as believers (and believers have said it) we say to God, "I can't help it," then God replies. "Yes you can, not because of what you have done or will do, but because of what my Son has already done. You have a new Master." And this Master, will not allow sin to have dominion over us. In some sense, we're only onlookers, not participants in the transfer of owership.

Blessings,

Lillian

[evangelist-1]

The "no longer slaves to sin" part has more to do with the price Christ paid to redeem us from the marketplace of sin, and not so much about what we do to "unslave" ourselves.

IMO, this means that because of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit who is teaching us
"all things" (John 14:26), we actually are able to put away sin, be led by the Spirit in all things,
and be overcomers (Rev 2-3).
Yes, Jesus paid the price, and the Father sent the precious Holy Spirit to us,
so we could be "no longer slaves to sin".

[patk2032]

You can lose faith and step away. But even when you do you are still saved your just being ignorant to God and his ways. I was a saved/ Born again believer since I was 16 but around 24 I stepped away from God for 6 and a half years. I ended up in a cult. I was also oppressed and possessed as far as I can tell. I did accept Jesus as my savior before that. So yes when your saved your saved. But you can choose to ignore God..

[iRoswell]

You can lose faith and step away. But even when you do you are still saved your just being ignorant to God and his ways. I was a saved/ Born again believer since I was 16 but around 24 I stepped away from God for 6 and a half years. I ended up in a cult. I was also oppressed and possessed as far as I can tell. I did accept Jesus as my savior before that. So yes when your saved your saved. But you can choose to ignore God..

If you don't mind my asking,
How do you know you were saved?

It appears that you are back now, I'm guessing as you're on a Christian forum, so did you "re-dedicate" your life back to God at some point? If so, how do you know you weren't actually saved when you came back, rather than before?

This makes me think of the parable of the farmer sowing seed in Matthew 13. The farmer threw a lot of seed, all falling in different spots. Depending on where it landed, the seed may or may not have grown. It's a parable of conversion. Only one of the four places the seed landed actually took root and remained. The others, were false conversions.

Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron have a great lesson on this. It's called True and False Conversion. You can find the audio on their website below.

http://wayofthemaster.com/audiolessons.shtml

[patk2032]

I knew I was saved before because I prayed for Jesus to come into my heart and save me.. I at that moment knew it and felt it. I was also working toward becoming a pastor. I did rededicate my life to God almost a year ago. All I can say is I wrote that story down and its here on this site. Read it if you choose and then you should have a better understanding of me.

Its not possible to truly tell if another person is saved or not its always a guess for another. But God knows and that's all that truly matters...

[iRoswell]

I knew I was saved before because I prayed for Jesus to come into my heart and save me.. I at that moment knew it and felt it. I was also working toward becoming a pastor. I did rededicate my life to God almost a year ago. All I can say is I wrote that story down and its here on this site. Read it if you choose and then you should have a better understanding of me.

Its not possible to truly tell if another person is saved or not its always a guess for another. But God knows and that's all that truly matters...

I do agree, only God truly knows if a person is born again.

I do caution though, feelings are very subjective, and as for the heart;
Jeremiah 17:9
“The human heart is the most deceitful of all things,
and desperately wicked.
Who really knows how bad it is?"

Do forgive me, but I really do not like the term, "I asked Jesus into my heart." God gives you a new "heart" when He makes you a new creation.

I do implore you to listen to the sermon I listed in the previous post. I'm not trying to say you weren't saved, but it is a question that should be investigated from all angles. It's not long so it won't take too much of your time any way.

Have a great day,
Joseph

[Paula22466]

according to 1 John 2:19 - those who leave the faith were never partakers of the faith

[iRoswell]

according to 1 John 2:19 - those who leave the faith were never partakers of the faith

Yep, can't get any plainer than that .