Does God Change His Mind?

[Paula22466]

The are a number of times that God allowed man to change His mind in the Old Testament.

I was reading over some old posts and found this quote from someone who believes that God "changes His mind." I remember wanting to go back and comment about it at the time but didn't want to further take the original topic off course. So - here we are. What are your thoughts?

[jo555]

Paula, I would say the answer is both yes and no.

Interesting as I was just speaking of circles in another post (whether it relates, don't know), and will be speaking of circles again.

One can picture God's will as a large circle, and man's freewill within God's circle. So, man can exercise his freewill as long as it is within God's circle. I believe timeframes also apply to this example. There is God's big clock based on his timing, but within that big clock there is timing based on man's decisions due to freewill.

So, I believe God does not change his mind in regards to the larger scheme of things, or his corporate moves if you prefer, but working with man's freewill he will change his mind.

God does call us to intercessory prayer. I believe our actions, and not acting, does effect his decisions within that circle, but not the outter circle.

That's my take on it.

[Paula22466]

Jo, thanks for the thoughts.

You said, "yes and no." But it cannot be both.

but working with man's freewill he will change his mind.

I don't think I understand what free will has to do, explicitly, with God changing His mind.

I absolutely agree with you, God does call us to prayer. If we are to ask Him for blessings, for ourselves and others, to help us with various situations, and He does so. Does that mean, do you think, the thing we asked for would not have come about if we had not asked? I know the scripture, "You have not because you ask not," would certainly seem to confirm my question. But would you agree the only time we get what we ask for is when God has revealed to us what to ask for?

[Fadingman]

I would say that, from our point of view, God changes His mind. For example, He told the Ninevites He would destroy them in 40 days (Jonah 3:4). Yet, when they repented, He 'changed His mind'.

From God's point of view, He doesn't change His mind. Since God is all knowing, He knew they would repent, and that He would grant mercy to them and not destroy them at that time. But they needed that 40-day warning in order to repent.

(BTW, the doctrine of the unchangableness of God has to do with His nature and character, not with changing His mind.)

[jo555]

I don't see it as a rule. I have receieved from God without asking, and as I have asked.

The portion you selected from what I said doesn't work without the rest because it needs to be seen within his will.

I believe God has his mind made up regarding what He is looking to do, but I do believe He also works with man regarding the finer details.

Does He work with man every time regarding the finer details? Again, I don't like to look at these things as rules as God can do what He wants whenever He wants so I wouldn't say yes to every time, but I do believe regarding the finer details of what He is looking to do, and timeframes (as seen within his timeframe), He will change his mind.

That's how I see it.

I know you may not agree, but does that clarify things for you?

[mikeedwards]

Very interesting Paula. I hope I am not confusing things here.

Jesus said I am the truth.

The Bible says over and over that God is not a respecter of persons.

Today I know this is simply stating that truth does not respect contrary beliefs. It only takes one step, not many, to fall off a cliff, violate God's law of gravity and fall to your death. It only takes one sin to step off the cliff of perfect morality. This is the truth even if you believe something different.

Hurricanes and tornado's affect everyone in their path they do not respect contrary beliefs. We see signs all around us of the way things work. You either fall inline with truth or get crushed by it.

So I guess I would be inline with fading man. Gods nature is truth, truth does not or cannot change. God cannot change His nature.

So if changing His mind has to do with changing the truth my answer is no.

The unchanging truth is why Jesus had to satisfy the law so we can be saved. The only other option was that God do away with or ignore the truth. Which he could not do.

We needs God's grace because of God's truth.

[Paula22466]

(BTW, the doctrine of the unchangableness of God has to do with His nature and character, not with changing His mind.)

Is not God's "mind" and whether or not it changes an inseparable component of His nature?

[Paula22466]

I don't see it as a rule. I have receieved from God without asking, and as I have asked.

Oh, I don't see it as a rule either. I was trying to equate the "asking" with the "knowing.

Does He work with man every time regarding the finer details? Again, I don't like to look at these things as rules as God can do what He wants whenever He wants so I wouldn't say yes to every time, but I do believe regarding the finer details of what He is looking to do, and timeframes (as seen within his timeframe), He will change his mind.

I understand your hesitancy to put God in a box in terms of always and never, but wouldn't you agree there are times when this is necessary for the sake of doctrine? If not, wouldn't we be dangerously close to relativism?

I appreciate your bent toward philosophy, so I believe if you would meditate on the reality of what it actually means for God to change His mind, regardless of the details (major or minute) you would "change your mind" haha - pun intended

[Paula22466]

Very interesting Paula. I hope I am not confusing things here.

Jesus said I am the truth.

The Bible says over and over that God is not a respecter of persons.

Today I know this is simply stating that truth does not respect contrary beliefs. It only takes one step, not many, to fall off a cliff, violate God's law of gravity and fall to your death. It only takes one sin to step off the cliff of perfect morality. This is the truth even if you believe something different.

Hurricanes and tornado's affect everyone in their path they do not respect contrary beliefs. We see signs all around us of the way things work. You either fall inline with truth or get crushed by it.

So I guess I would be inline with fading man. Gods nature is truth, truth does not or cannot change. God cannot change His nature.

So if changing His mind has to do with changing the truth my answer is no.

The unchanging truth is why Jesus had to satisfy the law so we can be saved. The only other option was that God do away with or ignore the truth. Which he could not do.

We needs God's grace because of God's truth.

Mike, I don't really understand what you're saying but I think you agree with me, therefore I say AMEN.

[Accord64]

My answer is "no", and I would offer a simple explanation for it.

God is omnipotent. He knows every single event (no matter how small) that will occur in time. He knows our every thought, even before we think it. Therefore, it's only logical to conclude that He is incapable of being surprised by anything. There would be no opportunity for Him to change His mind about anything. So, if He changed his mind about something, it would only seem that way from our perspective.

[jo555]

I don't see it as a rule. I have receieved from God without asking, and as I have asked.

Oh, I don't see it as a rule either. I was trying to equate the "asking" with the "knowing.

Does He work with man every time regarding the finer details? Again, I don't like to look at these things as rules as God can do what He wants whenever He wants so I wouldn't say yes to every time, but I do believe regarding the finer details of what He is looking to do, and timeframes (as seen within his timeframe), He will change his mind.

I understand your hesitancy to put God in a box in terms of always and never, but wouldn't you agree there are times when this is necessary for the sake of doctrine? If not, wouldn't we be dangerously close to relativism?

I appreciate your bent toward philosophy, so I believe if you would meditate on the reality of what it actually means for God to change His mind, regardless of the details (major or minute) you would "change your mind" haha - pun intended

Hee, hee. This gave me a good laugh in a good way and I will tell you why. See, I'm such an elaborater and I branch off often because I try and cover all these things in a post for the benefits of seeing these other important matters, yet at times I do take the shorter route, and figured I would now as I've gotten to know this place well enough, and figured some knew me well enough, where I didn't think I had to elaborate on some of those things now and can stick with the question . . .

Does God change his mind?

I agree with what the men said after me, that WHO GOD IS does not change.

I also see Jesus as our Chief Cornerstone and the foundation laid on Him does not change. Our Savior Jesus, and the promises God has given us in Him does not change.

Often, I have said in the past to others that those things are the only things I am sure of.
I may strongly believe I have it right in other areas, but I often can't say I am a hundred percent right.

I don't believe this I'm speaking phylosophy. God Himself began to call me to Himself for a season to teach me what I spoke to about, and He's given me more with time.

That was such a fruitful season for me that since then I have been spoiled to take any teaching except from his hand. I will listen to others as I know God uses others, yet I am an adamant speaker of God being the one to ultimately reveal his truth to us and teach us.

I'm not saying buy my word for it, just saying this isn't mere pysosophy on my part.

I have been spoiled for anyone else to teach me but God. That doesn't mean I don't believe God can use others to teach us (I believe in the office of a teacher), but I mean in the deepest sense.

And, it doesn't mean I have it all right due to my own misunderstandings.

I laugh again as I think of the irony of me trying not to branch off everywhere and go on . . .

I really don't have anymore to add to the conversation as I feel I have already given my answer. If you would like to discuss my methods, that's another matter. I have given you what I believe God has given me. I don't say I have it all right and perfect, but I won't change my mind unless He Himself reveals differently to me (even if I can take others input up to Him for prayerful consideration).

Thanks.

[iRoswell]

This is a harder question to answer than what's at face value. So I do apologize for this going longer than I expected.
The question: Does God change His mind?

First I want to clarify something. I believe that God knows everything. That He is outside of our limitation of time, and that everything He does has a purpose for His ultimate glory.
So, if you are asking if God changes His mind because of new information being presented to Him, then that is a big no. I do not believe He changes His mind. Yet...

There are Scriptures that show God changing His mind. The Jonah example is a good one. God did say He was going to destroy the Ninevites after forty days. He also sent a prophet to them, telling them of the destruction at hand. They heard the doom and gloom, repented, and God spared them in His grace.

Another good example is found in Exodus 32:14
"So the Lord changed his mind about the terrible disaster He had threatened to bring on his people."
Here, the Israelites made a calf idol and began worshipping it as the god that rescued them from Egypt. God tells Moses that He will wipe them out and start over with him. But Moses pleads for the people, and God, changes His mind...

The biggest issue with the thought that God changes His mind is the very fact that God knows all things. (1John 3:20) But as we see in Scripture, it would appear that He does... sort of.

Follow my logic here;
If God knows everything, then from an eternal perspective, God does not change His mind. He would already know the outcome before it began. Yet from our perspective, a temporal perspective, He does. Confused?

God never changes, (Malachi 3:6), and He said, “If that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it,” (Jer. 18:8). So from this we can see that He didn't change His mind concerning Ninivah. He sent Jonah, knowing they would repent, and He would be able to show them His grace. Jonah even knew it and that's why he didn't want to go in the first place. (Jonah 4:2)

As for Moses pleading on the Israelites behalf. We often see God has a way of revealing things through, shall we say, procrastination. For example, Jesus is told Lazuras is sick. Jesus knows he is going to die, yet doesn't go anywhere. He waits for poor Lazuras to die before He goes. Why? So He can show God's glory.

Now, back to the Moses situation. God keeps him up on the mountain for forty days. You know that God knows the Israelites are going to sin by idolatry and if Moses had been allowed to go down, it would have prevented it. But He didn't. He let them have their way, so He could be angry, for Moses to intercede, so God can relent, and finally, so He can show His grace by changing His mind.

The Old Testemanent is full of God revealing Himself in types and symbols. These types and symbols point ahead to Jesus. Here, Moses as a type of Christ, is interceding on the behalf of his people.

So, in my humble opinion, what we see here is God changing His mind from our perspective, but not from an eternal perspective.

Thanks for reading the ramblings of a rambler,
Joseph

[iRoswell]

I don't see it as a rule. I have receieved from God without asking, and as I have asked.

Oh, I don't see it as a rule either. I was trying to equate the "asking" with the "knowing.

Does He work with man every time regarding the finer details? Again, I don't like to look at these things as rules as God can do what He wants whenever He wants so I wouldn't say yes to every time, but I do believe regarding the finer details of what He is looking to do, and timeframes (as seen within his timeframe), He will change his mind.

I understand your hesitancy to put God in a box in terms of always and never, but wouldn't you agree there are times when this is necessary for the sake of doctrine? If not, wouldn't we be dangerously close to relativism?

I appreciate your bent toward philosophy, so I believe if you would meditate on the reality of what it actually means for God to change His mind, regardless of the details (major or minute) you would "change your mind" haha - pun intended

Hee, hee. This gave me a good laugh in a good way and I will tell you why. See, I'm such an elaborater and I branch off often because I try and cover all these things in a post for the benefits of seeing these other important matters, yet at times I do take the shorter route, and figured I would now as I've gotten to know this place well enough, and figured some knew me well enough, where I didn't think I had to elaborate on some of those things now and can stick with the question . . .

Does God change his mind?

I agree with what the men said after me, that WHO GOD IS does not change.

I also see Jesus as our Chief Cornerstone and the foundation laid on Him does not change. Our Savior Jesus, and the promises God has given us in Him does not change.

Often, I have said in the past to others that those things are the only things I am sure of.

I don't believe this I'm speaking phylosophy. God Himself began to call me to Himself for a season to teach me what I spoke to about, and He's given me more with time.

That was such a fruitful season for me that since then I have been spoiled to take any teaching except from his hand. I will listen to others as I know God uses others, yet I am an adamant speaker of God being the one to ultimately reveal his truth to us and teach us.

I'm not saying buy my word for it, just saying this isn't mere pysosophy on my part.

I have been spoiled for anyone else to teach me but God. That doesn't mean I don't believe God can use others to teach us (I believe in the office of a teacher), but I mean in the deepest sense.

And, it doesn't mean I have it all right due to my own misunderstandings.

I laugh again as I think of the irony of me trying not to branch off everywhere and go on . . .

I really don't have anymore to add to the conversation as I feel I have already given my answer. If you would like to discuss my methods, that's another matter. I have given you what I believe God has given me. I don't say I have it all right and perfect, but I won't change my mind unless He Himself reveals differently to me (even if I can take others input up to Him for prayerful consideration).

Thanks.

I have learned that, the more I know, I see just how little I actually know. I'm so thankful that God gave us His Word, a hard copy evidence of His will, to keep us in check. Looking back over the years, I'm ashamed of some of the things I thought God was telling me. Now I know that anything He reveals to me, will be revealed through His perfect Word. We have His Word in our hands to refer to so we can, know, that we are not going astray. Praise God for His mercy!!!

[jo555]

Paula, just want to say that I'm not sure what the brrr man is about, but if I accidentally added him, it was unintended. It was not intended to be a part of my post. I don't know how it got there. May have accidentally added that.

Also, read the original post as I edited a few things (or added a few things) that do not show up on this copied version.

I was actually thinking of stop sharing for awhile. Seems that people don't understand what I am saying . . . another place too. Maybe it is God's way of saying to move on for a time.

I think I will do that, unless He tells me otherwise. It will give me more time to get back to my writing too.

Thanks everyone. Much love your way.

[Paula22466]

Accord64 - thanks for your input. Short and to the point.

So, in my humble opinion, what we see here is God changing His mind from our perspective, but not from an eternal perspective.

Would you agree that the Bible uses language in describing God's actions, thoughts, etc in a way in which we can relate? For example, there are places in scripture where God is described as having "eyes" and "hands" and even wings. Of course we know God doesn't have these things anymore than He would have a reason to change His mind, if indeed He is omniscient (and I think all Christians believe He is).

Yet, many believe He does change His mind - usually quoting the same texts you listed. Although I wonder what then with texts like, Numbers 23:19-20 and 1 Samuel 15:29. What if we take such ideas to their natural conclusions -If Moses actually did "change God's mind" in the Exodus passage, what does that say about God? Moses had a better idea? God needed to be reminded of His reputation? God was about to make a mistake? It boggles my mind. We are talking about DEITY, immutable unchangeable, the Creator and His creature.

I like what you said about these narratives often being a way to display God's glory and grace, and I agree. I'd go even a step further and say they also ought to encourage us to pray, talk to God, repent of sin. Seems most of these, if not all, the passages which speak of God relented, repented, changed His mind, etc. accompany some sort of repentance or judgment passage.

But what about prayer? Don't we all agree that prayer changes things? I'm sure all of us can recite times when we know beyond a shadow that something came about or something changed, or something passed over us, because of prayer. Was God, "waiting," as you say, for the prayer? What if the prayer had never come? Does He compel us to pray for specific things? If God is truly sovereign, how do our prayers "change" anything? Is God decreeing (ordering, predetermining, ordaining) the means as well as the ends?