Once Saved Always Saved?

[pathlightfinder]

Paula,
You stated, "in this case, only my view (the Bible's view) is biblical."
I wish you the best; but, since you think only your view is biblical there is no point in talking with you (2 Timothy 2:16). I'll not repond to you in the fuiture - it would be unprofitable for all.

In Brotherly Love

Wayne

PS- My apologies to all . . .

https://thepathtolight.com/Home_Page.php

http://christianssearchandrescue.blogspot.com/

[lish1936]

The answer to once saved always saved is, IF saved always saved. John 6: 35-65 makes that perfectly clear to me. Jesus had no problem believing that: "All that the Father gives me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me, I will no means cast out...and at the last day I will raise him up." I do not believe that God takes away what He has given to His Son.

We cannot doubt the salvation experience of anyone, but should a "believer" turn away from the faith, and by their actions appear not to be saved, then according to the Scriptures, he was not among the "all." And if he was, then he will return to his Father's house. God does not abandon His wayward children. Still, God is the final judge.

Lillian

[Paula22466]

Paula,
You stated, "in this case, only my view (the Bible's view) is biblical."
I wish you the best; but, since you think only your view is biblical there is no point in talking with you (2 Timothy 2:16). I'll not repond to you in the fuiture - it would be unprofitable for all.

In Brotherly Love

Wayne

Allow me to qualify my remark, "only my view (the Bible's view) is biblical," by saying I was only referring to the doctrine of election/predestination, etc. Nor do I believe my view is biblical because it is "my view." I have not always held this view and as a matter of fact, fought tooth and nail against it. Nevertheless, after many years of careful exegesis, I had to submit to what the Bible says whether I like it or not. And since truth matters, I stand by the remark that my view is the biblical view (and it doesn't hurt that I am in some awesome company; Augustine, Spurgeon, Whitefield, Piper, MacArthur, & Sproul).

[stanuel]

Surely the best Bible passage to look at with this is the Parable of the Sower? 'As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.' (Matt 13:21) It's clear that some people receive the word with joy but backslide and end up leaving the faith.

So the question is, can you receive the word with joy without actually being saved? The answer's surely yes. To be saved but to 'get unsaved' makes God out to be less than all powerful.

[tomoral]

I was saved when I was ten years old and went to church with the family next door. It was my choice, and I was happy to be saved. Of course when I got older I lost my way, but finally at last Jesus led me back to him. It is a simple as that to me, because I feel I found my way back to Him because I once was saved.

And that is the gospel according to me! LOL

God BLess, Lynn

[lish1936]

Stanuel and Lynn, you have both emphasized my point.

IF SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.

In Stanuel case those "by the waysides," "on the rocks," and "among thorns" were never saved, and fell away.

In your case, Lynn, you're among the "All that the Father gives me," and He kept loving until you returned to the Father's house.

According to His divine plan, you had no other choice.

[Come forth]

The truth is that both sides of this argument can be presented with lots of supporting Scripture. And we can also make a list of the great Bible teachers through history who have supported both sides. The important thing here is not the answer, but our willingness to search out the answer and keeping our hearts and spirits open to each other.

I don't think the real question is, "Are we once saved and thus always saved?" but rather, "How precious do we consider our salvation and how much effort do we put into our personal relationship with each other and our Saviour?"

It's like the 'grace/works' argument. Of course it is God's grace that saved us, but we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith; Ephesians 2:8. What is 'faith' if it is not putting what we believe into action; show me your faith without your works (James 2:18-20). And even though we will NEVER be saved by our works, our salvation will always be proven or dis-proven by the works we do.

Love the heart of all who run the risk of being hurt by sharing what their heart says.

Blessings, Graham.

[lish1936]

Love your heart, Graham, but lovingly disagree with this:

And even though we will NEVER be saved by our works, our salvation will always be proven or dis-proven by the works we do.

Not ALWAYS, at least I hope not always. I've done some "works" that belie my salvation, big time. An unmerciful Judge would have thrown the book at me, and taken away my salvation. But inspite of those unholy "works", I've never doubt my place at His table. 1 John 1:9 reserves my spot.

I think the focus should be more on living it rather than proving it.

Blessings,
Lillian

[Come forth]

Hah, there it is, grace, awesome and amazing grace at work. Love it and agree whole heartedly.

But none the less, those works which I still say always prove our salvation, show us those areas of our lives that still need salvation to penetrate and clean. Am I only saved when the work in progress is finished? Personal here, but the way I see it is that once I receive and confess Him I share in this awesome salvation; but I then see all the works that disprove that the work of my salvation is complete and I start to work it out in fear and trembling.

Blessings, Graham

[lish1936]

Graham,
When you say "works ALWAYS prove our salvation", I think of non-believers who observe us when our works don't prove our salvation. To them it "proves" that our salvation is lacking or non-existent.

On some level, I understand what you're saying from a believer's perspective, but I can't wrap my head around our works ALWAYS "proving" anything; not while we are in this earthly body.

And the converse is true. Works don't ALWAYS prove that someone has salvation. There are many good "works" non-believers. Works are important, and we must strive to, as you put it, clean them up when they fall short of our testimony. But I wouldn't want them to ALWAYS be a part of my defense for my salvation.

Oh, I know, "faith without works is dead, " but I'm not talking about faith in that context. The gift of salvation is given despite our unrighteousness, which is permanently inherent in every believer. Our sin nature precludes any ability to ALWAYS prove our salvation by what we do. It's the ALWAYS word that troubles me, and many non-believers, too, who use us as examples of hypocrisy when our actions often speak louder than words; all the while not understanding we're a work in progress.

I, too, wish our works always proved/complied with the wonderful gift we've been given. But, alas...

Blessings,

Lillian

[pathlightfinder]

Lillian & Graham, I love the exchange you are having.
I think the Biblical analogy of being refined, as in a raw ore, is a great one. The more “refined” we are the more shiny we become to others. Some of us (my hand is raised) have needed more time and heat to get that shine.
Another analogy I use is that, as Christians, we are all “under construction”. We all have been given a plot of land to build on. Some of us may only have gotten around to building a one room cabin; others may have built a skyscraper.
As to once saved, always saved – I do not believe God would ever take that plot of land away; but, I don’t believe we have lost the freewill to forfeit it.
In Brotherly Love,

Wayne

PS – Hey Paula, looks like our exchange did some good – topic is on track and lively again. Take care.

https://thepathtolight.com/Home_Page.php

http://christianssearchandrescue.blogspot.com/

[lish1936]

.
As to once saved, always saved – I do not believe God would ever take that plot of land away; but, I don’t believe we have lost the freewill to forfeit it.
In Brotherly Love,

Wayne

Hmmm, Wayne. Permit me to disagree. After thinking about the above, and what I believe the Scripture indicate, I go back to my original premise.

IF saved we HAVE lost the freewill to forfeit it. Forfeit means to lose, and that means we lose and God also loses. And I don't think that's possible. The truly saved is part of the Bride of Christ, and God is married to the backslider. The run-a-way Bride eventually comes home.

I don't believe salvation is an open-ended contract. The truly saved are "sealed unto the day of Redemption."

Lillian

[pathlightfinder]

Well, I may be a "lone stranger" here. That's okay. Read Hebrews 6:4-6 as to a sealed believer. Even Paul expressed concern over the issue in 1 Corinthians 9:27. I could go on but to save time here is a link which, while not specific to this issue, does address it -

https://thepathtolight.com/Obedience_and_Salvation.html

In Brotherly Love

Wayne

https://thepathtolight.com/Home_Page.php

http://christianssearchandrescue.blogspot.com/

[Paula22466]

I don't think the real question is, "Are we once saved and thus always saved?" but rather, "How precious do we consider our salvation and how much effort do we put into our personal relationship with each other and our Saviour?"

I don't believe salvation is an open-ended contract. The truly saved are "sealed unto the day of Redemption."(1 Corinthians 15:10). Paul's running did not nullify the purpose of grace; it verified the power of grace.

I think you both are correct. None of us can deny that scripture is packed with urgings for believers to persevere, run the race, do not look back, die to self, work it out. As well as bulging with text that makes it clear-God is sovereign. He brought Israel to the sea and He will take them across. He brought them to the desert and He will lead them through. If we are sealed, we are sealed. Period. What God starts, God finishes (Romans 8:30). We are not saved because we persevere, run the race, do not look back, or struggle to kill the old man. We are saved because this is the way we run.We are not running because we want to obtain salvation, we run because Christ obtains us. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.(Phil 3:12)

Think about this in the way we live our everyday lives and serve God. For example, I teach the Bible. I don't teach because I am trying to earn salvation or win God's favor or calm His anger with me. I do it because I have already obtained all of those things. If we are not living out our faith in real, tangible, measurable ways - our faith is dead.

[pathlightfinder]

Lillian,
You said forfeit means to lose. I used it a s a verb:
<--- Concise Oxford Thesaurus --->
forfeit , , , be deprived of, surrender, relinquish, sacrifice, give up, yield, renounce, forgo; informal pass up, lose out on.

The God I know and love would never force our companionship or fellowship with with Him. If we were to reject Him He would, with a sadden heart, let us go.

I respect your right to feel otherwise and am glad that those that hold your view here don't "abuse" that view as I have seen others do - i.e. abusing their "liberty" because they are convinced they are saved no matter what.

In Brotherly Love,

Wayne