To view this notification widget you need to have JavaScript enabled. This notification widget was easily created with NotifySnack.
Home Tour About Read What's New Help Forums Join Login
My Account
Shop
Save
Support
E
Book
Store
Learn
About
Jesus
  




The HOME for Christian writers!
The Home for Christian Writers!

Forums

This area is only a small portion of FaithWriters. The main site can be joined HERE.
Shop & Save to SUPPORT FaithWriters.
Upgrade to SUPPORT FaithWriters.

Do Animals Go to Heaven?

For those who like to discuss and debate theology. This is a forum for people who enjoy strong and lively debate with people who may not be likeminded. Participants are requested to always treat other opinions with respect.

Moderators: mikeedwards, cori67, RedBaron

User avatar
swfdoc1
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby swfdoc1 » Fri May 09, 2014 9:57 pm

All of my prior posts were directed to one or more specific participants. This one is directed to everyone generically, as well as to future participants:

This was Matt's thread & I feel I have posted too much. I am bowing out, unless someone directs a question to me specifically (and despite the rest of this post, please feel free to do so). Or perhaps, to hedge my bets, I should say I am bowing out unless someone posts something TOO juicy (either right or wrong, according to my lights) to resist. :D)

I hope that--to the extent folks feel it is profitable--you all continue without me.
Steve
nlf.net
________
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred; middle
things are gone." C.S. Lewis
“The chief purpose of life … is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks. To do as we say in the Gloria in Excelsis ... We praise you, we call you holy, we worship you, we proclaim your glory, we thank you for the greatness of your splendor.” J.R.R. Tolkien

User avatar
lish1936
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:21 pm
Location: New York

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby lish1936 » Fri May 09, 2014 9:59 pm

Jan wrote:In my opinion--and I admit that I'm not a theologian--if animals go to heaven, it's because Jesus died to save them from their sins...



I'm not qualified to add to this really heavy, theological discussion except to say:
No offense to dog owners/lovers, but I have a very serious phobia against dogs, big or small. If they are in heaven, it won't be a very peaceful place for me. Certainly. the one that bit me still has not atoned for or confessed his "sin." :D

So I'm with Jan. Heaven is a placed prepared for believers who have accepted Christ. That much I know.

Lillian
E-Book - Retirement Lane - How to Celebrate Life After 60

Fortunate 500


I write even when I think I can't, because I must. :-)

I love to write. Nothing escapes the crush I have on the written word. I'm hooked on words!!

"Let words bewitch you. Scrutinze them, mull them, savor them, and in combination, until you see their subtle differences and the ways they tint each other." Francis Flaherty

User avatar
tomoral
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 1436
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:08 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby tomoral » Sat May 10, 2014 1:33 pm

As always, I respect the opinion of Jan and Lillian. I really do.

Just have one question. So where do the animals come from, if not from Heaven? :?
God Bless the beasts and the children
Give them shelter from the storms.
Children are our tomorrow
Keep them daily from the sorrow
Of the beasts in life

http://www.faithwriters.com/websites/my ... p?id=57394

User avatar
swfdoc1
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby swfdoc1 » Sat May 10, 2014 3:59 pm

P.S. When I got notifications about more posts in this thread, I noticed that I'd written:

swfdoc1 wrote:I hope that--to the extent folks feel it is profitable--you all continue without me.


I didn't mean that in an egomaniacal way, as if it might not be profitable WITHOUT ME. I just wondered whether people would consider it profitable AT ALL to continue or whether people were wearing out.

I'm glad to see others are still carrying on.
Steve
nlf.net
________
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred; middle
things are gone." C.S. Lewis
“The chief purpose of life … is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks. To do as we say in the Gloria in Excelsis ... We praise you, we call you holy, we worship you, we proclaim your glory, we thank you for the greatness of your splendor.” J.R.R. Tolkien

User avatar
glorybee
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6181
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby glorybee » Sat May 10, 2014 4:26 pm

tomoral wrote:As always, I respect the opinion of Jan and Lillian. I really do.

Just have one question. So where do the animals come from, if not from Heaven? :?


I'm not sure I understand that question. They come from their parents, biologically speaking--from the processes that God put into motion.

I don't think people come from heaven either--not in the sense of little babies waiting for their turn to become people on earth. I think that's a sweet and romantic notion, but I don't think it's necessarily theological.

In the sense that all of God's gifts--including animals--come from Him, then I suppose they come from heaven, since that His dwelling place. But that doesn't mean they're going back there, any more than other parts of His beautiful creation. Except, of course, His redeemed children.

I could be misunderstanding you. And of course, my usual disclaimer: I'm no theologian.
Jan Ackerson

jo555
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 843
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby jo555 » Wed May 14, 2014 11:18 pm

Oh, oh, was passing through when saw this and wanted to share my two cents . . . and yes, got another story.

Forgive me for not quoting a scripture, yet there are so many that include animals in the spiritual realm. I don't believe they are all symbolic.

Now, for my story. When I was around nineteen I had to put one of my beloved dogs to sleep. I cried and prayed for about 2 years or so for the Lord to let me see him in heaven with Him (I had asked God to take him to heaven). I didn't pray as often after those two years and just believed that anything is possible with God and that my baby was in heaven with my Heavenly Father.

18 years later, years since I prayed that prayer as I gave it up and figured it probably won't happen until I was in heaven, I saw my boy.

It was after a very difficult time in my life and after the Lord showed me what He was doing with me in that time . . . well, had like a personal revival and also it was like I couldn't close my eyes for seeing something, and sometimes hearing something.

Well, one time I was on the couch and was about asleep when I sat up. I'm not sure if it was a dream but I believe I came out of my body partially. And, I saw him. There was my dog. He walked up to me and I pet him, then I was back laying down in my body and it was over.

Here's the thing too. It didn't look exactly like him. I mean he was the same size, but his hair was all white and standing up on its ends, but it looked nice. And, his nose was longer than it was in his earth life, but I just knew that I knew that it was him.

Here I had put that aside, feeling I probably won't see him again until I am in heaven, yet God didn't forget. That was so sweet for me too because all this time had passed but it was like He was saying, "I know how much you wanted this. I didn't forget."

I don't know why He waited that long, but He didn't forget so it was bittersweet for me.

And no, I am not telling anyone to go by my story, just sharing my story. I believe the bible gives enough evidence that there will be animals in heaven . . . what level of heaven, I don't know, but in heaven nonetheless.

My two cents.

And Colswann, enjoyed the story. I'm a jabber myself. I enjoy dialogue and yours was cute.
Last edited by jo555 on Wed May 14, 2014 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
People may be right in their own eyes, but the Lord looks upon the heart - Proverbs

jo555
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 843
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby jo555 » Wed May 14, 2014 11:21 pm

Oh, wanted to add that I think the biggest evidence that there are animals in Heaven is when Jesus mentioned that if God wanted, He can make the rocks cry out . . .

Why not animals in Heaven if He wanted?
People may be right in their own eyes, but the Lord looks upon the heart - Proverbs

jo555
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 843
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby jo555 » Wed May 14, 2014 11:43 pm

Last but not least . . . just to be clear . . .

I did not ask God to have my doggie visit me. The prayer was that He be taken to heaven and be with the Lord and that I see him in heaven.

So anyway, may be a dream, but I believe there was more to it than that.

:thankssign
People may be right in their own eyes, but the Lord looks upon the heart - Proverbs

User avatar
tomoral
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 1436
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:08 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby tomoral » Thu May 15, 2014 10:31 am

I believe there are animals in heaven, just as there are angels and spirits. I know my cat has a soul, because he is so very loving and sweet. So where did that LOVE from him come from, as God is LOVE, and He resides in heaven?

Also look into the eyes of an animal, you can see that one has a soul. If the eyes are the windows to the soul, how can one not see it?

Just my opinion. :roll:
God Bless the beasts and the children
Give them shelter from the storms.
Children are our tomorrow
Keep them daily from the sorrow
Of the beasts in life

http://www.faithwriters.com/websites/my ... p?id=57394

Calicocat7
Pencil 1 (1-49 Posts)
Pencil 1 (1-49 Posts)
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby Calicocat7 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:41 pm

I've always found it baffling and somewhat amusing that people feel so very strongly that animals won't/don't/can't go to heaven. Really, what does it matter to you if they are there or not? I suppose I can understand that mentality a little bit better in the case of someone who has been terrified or injured by one; however, one thing we can all be assured of is that Heaven will be perfect for us. All hurts and fears, all sin and miscommunication will be wiped away. I don't have access to a concordance or any other research tools at the moment, so from a debate standpoint, I don't have a list of verses to back this up, but I think those things are generally accepted about Heaven.

I grew up with the teaching that animals don't have souls and thus don't go to Heaven. My life has played out in such a way, however, that I have come to see caring for animals, especially abandoned and neglected ones, as part of my God-given calling and purpose in life. As part of that, I have developed some very definite opinions about God and His animal creation. I am not a theologian and don't have profound arguments to back up my theories, but I do have a sense of understanding and peace because of who God is and His relationship to me and the animals He has placed in my care.
Some of my thoughts:

1. With the exception of the serpent, who may or may not actually count as an animal, animals have never been described as sinners in the Bible. Not being created in God's image, they do not have the same moral capacity and responsibility that we do. They are among the part of creation that suffers due to human sin and the curse. Their innocence is why they could be used as sacrificial substitutes for human sin. If they sinned, they would have had to die for their own sin and would not be able to cover ours. Carnivores and scavengers were unclean because of what they ate and how they ate it, but even they weren't said to be sinners. Therefore, I don't see that Jesus death was necessary on their behalf (except insofar as the entire creation had/has to be released from the curse) or that they should have to repent or anything else to be able to enter Heaven.

2. I have come to believe that prior to the flood, humans and animals could communicate much more clearly with each other. There appears to have been a closer bond that ended when God told Noah after the flood that animals would be afraid of humans from then on. (Genesis 9:2-3)

3. God cares deeply and intimately about his animal creation. He knows when a single sparrow falls (Matthew 10:29-30). He nourishes the hungry raven and knows when the mountain goats give birth, he marks the gestation period of the doe, and prepares the desert for the wild o en and donkeys. He knows, and created the ostrich, aware of her habit of leaving her eggs and young unprotected on the sand, and he knows the magnificence of the horse in battle (Job 38:41, 39).

4. When I look at the world around me-its beauty, majesty, intricate detail and design, and I see how animals fit into it and are such a vital part of it, and I realize that Heaven can only be more so, I know without doubt that not only will there be animals in Heaven, there will probably be a wider variety of them than we've ever imagined,and indeed, a host of creatures we can't even fathom here and now. And, if there are animals there, why would He exclude the animals that we know and love? Is He not sovereign and did He not put them in our care for a reason?

There are other, more personal reasons that I see things this way, but I'm content with knowing God, and trusting in the nature of God, and if the animals I have loved and nurtured during their lives on earth are not actually in Heaven, then I'm content knowing that He has them in whatever state or capacity they are now, and that they are loved and at peace. I also believe that as I am His child, and He planted this love of animals in me, He will give me a whole new love and understanding of them when I get to Heaven, and we will enjoy and delight in them together.

We can argue theology all we want, but the truth is, we can't know for sure about the animal issue, and frankly, I don't understand what is at stake for people who fiercely argue that animals won't be there. If they don't want to be around animals in God's presence, I'm sure they won't be, and I'm equally sure that God will enjoy with them whatever passion and calling He made important to them.

User avatar
WriterFearNot
Pencil 6 (300-499 Posts)
Pencil 6 (300-499 Posts)
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:45 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby WriterFearNot » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:40 am

Dear Calicocat7,

That was beautifully written, and I agree. You might be interested in reading Heaven, by Randy Alcorn.

Theresa

User avatar
lish1936
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:21 pm
Location: New York

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby lish1936 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:04 pm

Calicocat7 wrote:Carnivores and scavengers were unclean because of what they ate and how they ate it, but even they weren't said to be sinners....

I don't understand what is at stake for people who fiercely argue that animals won't be there. If they don't want to be around animals in God's presence, I'm sure they won't be, and I'm equally sure that God will enjoy with them whatever passion and calling He made important to them.


Lillian wrote:... but I have a very serious phobia against dogs, big or small. If they are in heaven, it won't be a very peaceful place for me. Certainly, the one that bit me still has not atoned for or confessed his "sin." :D


Oh dear, I have a feeling that my attempt at "tongue in cheek" fell flat. Just kidding about the "peaceful place" and "sin" thing. Quite frankly, my main concern is that I'll be in heaven, those I love, and the people God puts in my path to whom I share the gospel. I've never been admonished to evangelize anything other than people. If animals are in heaven, then God has made other arrangements with them. :D

"Let not your heart be troubled...I go to prepare a place for you..." Animals included in the "you"? Don't know.

Lillian
E-Book - Retirement Lane - How to Celebrate Life After 60

Fortunate 500


I write even when I think I can't, because I must. :-)

I love to write. Nothing escapes the crush I have on the written word. I'm hooked on words!!

"Let words bewitch you. Scrutinze them, mull them, savor them, and in combination, until you see their subtle differences and the ways they tint each other." Francis Flaherty

User avatar
swfdoc1
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby swfdoc1 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:12 pm

Well, I don’t have time to re-debate this. As much as I would like to interact with some of your specific points, I won’t. So just 2 quick points about top level issues.

First, you wrote:

Calicocat7 wrote:I've always found it baffling and somewhat amusing that people feel so very strongly that animals won't/don't/can't go to heaven. Really, what does it matter to you if they are there or not? I suppose I can understand that mentality a little bit better in the case of someone who has been terrified or injured by one . . . .

. . .

. . . . I don't understand what is at stake for people who fiercely argue that animals won't be there.


Not believing that animals are in Heaven because one had a bad experience with them would be a really bad reason to stake out a theological position.

As for what’s at stake and why does it matter, I’m rather taken aback. Matt asked a theological question. (Most) people—on both sides—naturally turned to their best understanding of what the bible teaches. Your question of ‘what does it matter” strikes me as asking in a particular context, “what does it matter that we wrestle with the Bible to understand what it teaches?”

Second, you wrote:

Calicocat7 wrote:We can argue theology all we want, but the truth is, we can't know for sure about the animal issue . . . .


Yet, you also wrote:

Calicocat7 wrote:I know without doubt that not only will there be animals in Heaven, there will probably be a wider variety of them than we've ever imagined,and indeed, a host of creatures we can't even fathom here and now. . . .

. . . if the animals I have loved and nurtured during their lives on earth are not actually in Heaven, then I'm content knowing that He has them in whatever state or capacity they are now, and that they are loved and at peace.


This is not an approach that I would endorse for any theological issue.

Just as a bad experience with animals would be a bad reason to believe they are not in heaven, so having good experiences with, or even a ministry to care for, animals is a bad reason to “know” they are in heaven. Your calling to care for animals and your deep attachment to them don’t even implicate this issue. Such callings are completely explainable by the so-called dominion mandate, Gen. 1:28. This dominion should certainly include care and nurture of the animal kingdom, and the type of work you do, but again, this tells us nothing about Heaven.
Steve
nlf.net
________
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred; middle
things are gone." C.S. Lewis
“The chief purpose of life … is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks. To do as we say in the Gloria in Excelsis ... We praise you, we call you holy, we worship you, we proclaim your glory, we thank you for the greatness of your splendor.” J.R.R. Tolkien

User avatar
lish1936
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:21 pm
Location: New York

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby lish1936 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:15 pm

Steve wrote:Just as a bad experience with animals would be a bad reason to believe they are not in heaven...


Steve, you know I was jesting, right? I wouldn't approach this topic theologically, because I don't know the correct answer, if there is one; it's not a top priority on my list of things to think about or explore. :D

Lillian
E-Book - Retirement Lane - How to Celebrate Life After 60

Fortunate 500


I write even when I think I can't, because I must. :-)

I love to write. Nothing escapes the crush I have on the written word. I'm hooked on words!!

"Let words bewitch you. Scrutinze them, mull them, savor them, and in combination, until you see their subtle differences and the ways they tint each other." Francis Flaherty

User avatar
swfdoc1
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
Pencil Plus (Over 500 Posts)
 
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Do Animals Go to Heaven?

Postby swfdoc1 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:36 pm

lish1936 wrote:
Steve wrote:Just as a bad experience with animals would be a bad reason to believe they are not in heaven...


Steve, you know I was jesting, right? I wouldn't approach this topic theologically, because I don't know the correct answer, if there is one; it's not a top priority on my list of things to think about or explore. :D

Lillian


No I was being dead serious. As you can see from the portion of Calicocat7's post that I quoted, I was responding directly to that point of hers. I had not seen your post (the one between hers and mine) until after I posted my last, so that wasn't the target of my point. (And I didn't remember the dog joke from back when.)
Steve
nlf.net
________
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred; middle
things are gone." C.S. Lewis
“The chief purpose of life … is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks. To do as we say in the Gloria in Excelsis ... We praise you, we call you holy, we worship you, we proclaim your glory, we thank you for the greatness of your splendor.” J.R.R. Tolkien

PreviousNext

Return to Theology Discussion and Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


© MeasurelessMedia. All rights reservedTerms of Service



Jesus - True for You But not for Me      Website Builder     Build Website     Is Jesus God?    
Does God exist?     Build a writers website     Does truth exist?     Website online in minutes