Man is unable to choose to believe on his own!

[evangelist-1]

Man is unable to choose spiritual life (salvation) on his own
because he is …

-- a spiritual idiot … proof: consider history and the many religions, cults, sects, etc.

-- born with an inherited sin nature … many verses
-- spiritually dead in his sins … Ephesians 2:1-5, Colossians 2:13
-- a captive to the law of sin and death … Romans 8:2
-- a slave to sin, forced to obey evil … John 8:34, Romans 6:17-21, Titus 3:3
-- an enemy of God, hostile to God, opposed to God … Romans 8:7

-- spiritually blind and deaf … Matthew 13:13-15, John 9:39, John 12:39-40, Eph 4:18
-- unable to understand the things of God (they are foolishness) … 1 Corinthians 2:14
-- seeing the gospel as utter foolishness … 1 Corinthians 1:18
-- unable to believe the truth of the gospel because it is veiled … 2 Corinthians 4:3

-- blinded by Satan … Acts 26:18, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4
-- controlled (ruled) by Satan … John 12:31, 1 John 5:19, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor 10:4-5
-- deceived by Satan … Revelation 12:9, John 8:44, 2 Corinthians 11:14
-- a captive of Satan unto death … Hebrews 2:14-15, Luke 4:18

-- unable to be righteous by doing good works … Isaiah 64:6, Galatians 2:16, Titus 3:5
-- unable to be saved by his own desire or works … Romans 9:16, Ephesians 2:8-9
-- able to be saved only by the grace and mercy of God … Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7
-- NOT allowed to choose ... God chooses only whomever He pleases … Romans 9:9-24

[iRoswell]

There are three things about this post I find interesting.

1. The way it's posted gives the appearance that you are arguing with somebody before anyone even has a chance to argue with you.

2. You seem to be angry that man cannot choose to believe on his own.

3. You are assuming that there is somebody on these forums that believes they can choose without God calling them.

I think, though I could be wrong, that everybody believes that God must call you in order for you to come. If that's the case, the debate really only begins when deciding on whether or not God calls only a select few, or if He calls everyone.

[evangelist-1]

There are three things about this post I find interesting.
1. The way it's posted gives the appearance that you are arguing with somebody before anyone even has a chance to argue with you.
2. You seem to be angry that man cannot choose to believe on his own.
3. You are assuming that there is somebody on these forums that believes they can choose without God calling them.
I think, though I could be wrong, that everybody believes that God must call you in order for you to come. If that's the case, the debate really only begins when deciding on whether or not God calls only a select few, or if He calls everyone.

Yes, I've been arguing (sort of) elsewhere for a month now about your #3 and below.
After all, the NT does have a bunch of "whosoever believes", etc. verses.

Yes, I'm testing the new waters here to see if we have any live ones!

I appreciate your observant post. Thanks.

[rleavers]

The Bible is clear we cannot know God unless we are prompted by the Holy Spirit. On the other hand it is also clear that we have no excuse to say we do not know there is a God. Creation proclaims the existance of god.
So yes we can beleive in God on our own, but we cannot have a saving relationship with him unless prompted to beleive and accept his Grace by the Holy Spirit.

In Christ
Ralph
GOD is GOOD!!!

[Shann]

Dear Evangelist,

You make some valid points. I'm sorry you are angry. We like to have new members pop into the newbie nook and introduce themselves. That way we can welcome you. You can find that thread here: viewforum.php?f=3

You also may want to check out these threads as well.
viewtopic.php?t=23988

viewtopic.php?t=6221

I'm so sorry that you have been frustrated lately and arguing elsewhere. I hope that you find what you are looking for.
I understand the need "to test the waters" here. I think one of the best ways to do that is to familiarize yourself wirth the boards and perhaps read some of the articles or challenges. Welcome.

[evangelist-1]

The Bible is clear we cannot know God unless we are prompted by the Holy Spirit.
On the other hand it is also clear that we have no excuse to say we do not know
there is a God. Creation proclaims the existance of god.
So yes we can beleive in God on our own, but we cannot have a saving relationship
with him unless prompted to beleive and accept his Grace by the Holy Spirit.

Super, Ralph ... now my question for you is ...
Does God need to give the gift of grace-faith-salvation (Eph 2:8-9, 1 Cor 1:17-25, etc.)
before one can effectively believe in Jesus and His "foolish" gospel.
All the while remembering the reasons in the OP.

[evangelist-1]

You make some valid points. I'm sorry you are angry.
I'm so sorry that you have been frustrated lately and arguing elsewhere.

Greetings, Shann ... I never was angry over this, frustrated a little, yes.
2 sets of Scriptures ... 2 sets of beliefs ... but IMO I do have God's reasons for this.
Many thanks for the welcome!

[tomoral]

We like friendly discussions here on Faithwriters. We don't like frustrated arguments.

Welcome to a family who inspires and encourages. A family of faith in Jesus Christ.

[evangelist-1]

We like friendly discussions here on Faithwriters. We don't like frustrated arguments.
Welcome to a family who inspires and encourages. A family of faith in Jesus Christ.

Anything that you don't care to participate in Theology Discussion and Chat
I'd say you don't need to. Are you speaking for everyone here?
When believers chat about theology there are bound to be some things to discuss.
But, only for those who want to.

P.S. Do you recall the heated arguments between Paul and Bartholomew?
But, rest easy, no one desires to that here!.

[Come forth]

A few rules of etiquette and good manners should be willingly applied by all Christians in their discussions. These forums have often seen good lively debate over theological issues, but until today I do not believe I've seen anyone consistently typing in red ink as if to deliberately display anger and to come across so rudely.

I'm sorry but I really feel the need to say this. I believe your points are lost because of the emotional challenge you seem to be deliberately attempting to create. Maybe reconsider your approach and give these boards the chance to discuss with you in friendly tones.

Blessings, Graham

[tomoral]

Graham, he is intentionally trying to get someone to respond to his anger with anger. Ignore him and maybe he will go away.

[iRoswell]

There are some really nice people here who love to discuss theology. I think you will fit in once everyone gets to know you.

[Come forth]

Graham, he is intentionally trying to get someone to respond to his anger with anger. Ignore him and maybe he will go away.

I know, but I am not responding with anger, simply pointing out that our relationship could be built in a different approach. And I don't want anyone to just 'go away'.

My prayer is that we will all learn to walk and talk together in the love that Jesus asked us to walk in. One of my points often voiced on these forums is the awesome power of personal choice to do what is right where strife is concerned; 1 Co 3:3, Php 2:3, James 3:14 and James 3:16.

If we think it is right to go around waving big rag flags at each other, and yet at the same time we can declare God in our lives as the power behind all of our choices, then which God do we serve and how weak is He in this situation?

Let us build relationships not tear down others so that the relationship is only built on our terms.

Blessings, Graham

[tomoral]

sorry Graham. I will stay out of this and let you theologians take it from here!

[mikeedwards]

Hey Evangelist,

I was curious as to the point of your post. I have ran into this quite a bit lately and I have had some even disagree with our Jesus page where we offer Christ as a choice they need to make. Some would say as you are that we cannot make the choice because of our fallen state. But I like to point out that it is always offered as a choice in scripture. For example every time anyone including Jesus said repent or perish it is presented as a choice to the hearer. Some use the stand you are taking to not share their faith claiming who is called will come no matter what. So what is the point of telling anyone. Some use these scripture to worry about their own salvation.

I look at it a little differently. I cannot meet Gods standard. I cannot earn a gift. If I am not saved there is nothing I can do about it. But one thing I can do is to tell others about Christ. When I take this stand I realize I have forgotten about myself, which is what Jesus told us to do.

So I am still curious as to why this is important to you. I ask in a friendly way as I did not see you as angry.

God Bless, Mike