My Mind Has Been Working Overtime. End Time Question

[lish1936]

The Supreme Court will soon take up the Gay Marriage issue. I know, as Christians, we believe gay marriage violates God's law. But it doesn't violate God's plan for the end times. So how can we decry the legalization of gay marriage without seeing it as a necessary development for the fulfillment of God's Word?

Should we hope that the Supreme Court strikes it down which could put biblical prouncements about end times at odds with the decision, or should we hope that there's a majority vote for it, thereby confirming Scripture.

Is this a real conundrum, or am I not making sense?

Lillian

[mikeedwards]

Hi Lillian,

They will call evil good and good evil.

I have thought a lot about the gay issue lately. The direction God is leading me is that it is a sin like any sin. The problem is that many want to deny it is a sin and try and work around Gods clear word. It will produce temporary relief from the guilt like all denial does as people join together to comfort each other in their sin. However as we know in the end, denial of the truth will not work. That is where I see the big problem is. it is like any sin that I would want to keep doing so justify it as I go along. The queen james Bible version just came out as another attempt to cover it up as sin.

Approval by the Supreme court would be simply an additional justification and comfort in misery. We know that in Jesus time the government did not always align with God. The only thing we can do is stick to the truth of Gods word and point out that it clearly says it is a sin. We have not other choice. We are the watchmen on the wall and this is a Trojan horse. We could not pray that it gets approved to fulfill end times prophecy.

I am not better than anyone. I am not better than any person living a gay lifestyle. I still sin every day. But this denial thing is a trap of satan. I could deny many things I do are sin but it won't change the truth. We either chase truth or feelings. Truth is often not in alignment with feelings.

[tomoral]

I keep coming back to this. The bible says homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord. It also says lying is an abomination. How often do we excuse other people's lies?

I have a friend who is gay, two as a matter of fact. I love them for the people they are inside. I am confused as to how I feel about their being gay. As a Christian I feel it is wrong. As a compassionate human being I know in my heart they don''t choose to be gay.

One is in fact a missionary nurse, who has spent her life in India, Bosnia, and other third world countries, selflessly giving healthcare to children and adults.I have known her since she was born. She has believed in Jesus since she learned to talk. She doesn't have a partner and as I far as I know, never has. But it doesn't change the fact that she is attracted to women.

As far as prophesy goes towards Revelations, everything seems to be coming true.


If I am not making much sense here it is because I am still somwhat rattled from my laser surgery.

[mikeedwards]

Hi Lynn, I hope you are recovering quickly. We need you around here.

When I read your post I thought of Paul in Romans where he says he does not do what he wants to do. He actually does what he does not want to do. We all have a conscience and a natural desire to rebel against our conscience. I do not think many people we asked would tell us they set out to be a liar.The fact that it was not their intention does not make it any less of a sin. They only further complicate the problem if they deny it is a sin. That is sin on top of sin. Flesh trying vainly to justify flesh, pride.

To lie is an abomination, pride is an abomination, hating is murder and lusting is adultery in in Gods economy if I want to agree or not. Sin is a product of a fallen world. Since we live in a fallen world you are correct in that we may sometimes have trouble recognizing sin. That is why we need to trust God and what he calls sin.

This is why I called it a Trojan horse. We cannot reject anyone because they are gay. That would be like rejecting a person because they lie. But we cannot say it is not a sin. That would be like telling the prideful it is not a sin. That is not our decision. If we do we give false hope and assist the lost in the lie that homosexuality is not a sin. No sin, no repentance, no forgiveness needed.

I find it interesting that they call it gay pride.

But the serpent said to the woman, Come on Eve (“You will not surely die" Gen 3:4) In other words what God said cannot be true Eve.

I also find it interesting that God has me really dealing with this topic and having compassion for the gay community. Something that is totally from God. I would have never thought about it.

[iRoswell]

I have seen a lot, especially as of late, that has people saying that they were born gay and so it's not their fault. The only test the media shows are those that confirm this to be the case. Parents sometimes come forward and talk about how their child loved to play with dolls when they were young, and so forth.

But there is a lot of tests proving the opposite as well. Proponents of evolution say love is nothing more than a chemical reaction in your body to the pheromones being produced by the other person. If that were true, than yes, homosexuality would be something you are born with. You can't help whose pheromones you are attracted to. In a growing trend around the world, there are people coming out saying they are only attracted to animals. If you are born gay, then you would have to assume these people are born that way as well.

But as Christians we know this is not the case. God is love, (1 John 4:8),
and He is a spirit and does not have a pheromone producing body. Yet, He is the epitome of what love truly is. So if its not pheromones, and it is actually choice, then that choice can be perverted into anything you want it to be.

As for the end times, it's going to happen whether we fight it or not. The issues in our government and in our laws, really has nothing to do with the end times. If we look around, people are already believing that right is wrong and wrong is right. It doesn't matter if the law agrees with them or not.

[iRoswell]

Hi Lynn, I hope you are recovering quickly. We need you around here.

When I read your post I thought of Paul in Romans where he says he does not do what he wants to do. He actually does what he does not want to do. We all have a conscience and a natural desire to rebel against our conscience. I do not think many people we asked would tell us they set out to be a liar.The fact that it was not their intention does not make it any less of a sin. They only further complicate the problem if they deny it is a sin. That is sin on top of sin. Flesh trying vainly to justify flesh, pride.

To lie is an abomination, pride is an abomination, hating is murder and lusting is adultery in in Gods economy if I want to agree or not. Sin is a product of a fallen world. Since we live in a fallen world you are correct in that we may sometimes have trouble recognizing sin. That is why we need to trust God and what he calls sin.

This is why I called it a Trojan horse. We cannot reject anyone because they are gay. That would be like rejecting a person because they lie. But we cannot say it is not a sin. That would be like telling the prideful it is not a sin. That is not our decision. If we do we give false hope and assist the lost in the lie that homosexuality is not a sin. No sin, no repentance, no forgiveness needed.

I find it interesting that they call it gay pride.

But the serpent said to the woman, Come on Eve (“You will not surely die" Gen 3:4) In other words what God said cannot be true Eve.

I also find it interesting that God has me really dealing with this topic and having compassion for the gay community. Something that is totally from God. I would have never thought about it.

I agree 100%!

[tomoral]

I said I had two friends. The other is a gentle, kind, very feminine man who in fact is so pretty he could be a woman. He told me his life story. He said when he came of age and realized he was physically attracted to other boys he wanted to die and almost did. He did not want to be gay. He tried to kill himself when he was 16 years old because he thought he was a freak.

At what point did he make the choice?

There are many studies that says this happens in the first trimester in the mother's womb. I don't know.But I will leave the judgment up to someone with far more wisdom and compassion and love than I could possibly ever render.

[tomoral]

By the way, Mike I am feeling better. Just a little slow.

Blessings,Lynn

[iRoswell]

A child learns to lie at a very young age. Some psychologist even say that a baby can learn to lie. He cries a certain way and he gets what he wants. Is he born a liar? Well in one sense, yes. We are all born with a sin nature.

Homosexuality is a sin and therefore falls under the same sin nature we are all born with. That's the case whether you have stolen once, or are classified as a kleptomaniac. Its also the same for the person who lusts at the beach, or the one addicted to porn. Sexual sin is in the same boat as the person who tells a white lie. James 2:10 says all it takes is one sin. But that doesn't mean we don't stand up against sin. I think one of our biggest problems today is we are hiding our sins rather than exposing them.

I am a sinner who has been saved by grace. And because of that, God has given me a promise about my sins.

1 Corinthians 10:13
"The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure." (NLT)

We need to stand strong in the face of sin. I struggle with sin everyday. It may not be the sin of homosexuality, but it is sin none the less. James 2:10 makes it clear that my sins are the same as anyone dealing with homosexuality. But we are also called to repent of those sins, recognize them for what they are, and turn away from them.

I'm not fighting with you. If I am making you feel angry, I'm sorry. That is not my intention. You are my sister in Christ and I love you. I also want the best for your friends and I know that only God can provide that. I hope you heal quickly from your surgery.

[iRoswell]

You know, it just hit me that we are all in the same boat. While I have chosen to sin, I never asked to be a sinner. There was nothing I could have ever done to not be a sinner.

I just wanted to share that. I've known it in my studies about our sin nature, but I've never seen it in a real life application until now. It's really humbling and eye opening.

[tomoral]

Of course we're not fighting. We often have friendly debates in the forums. So don't be afraid to express you very well put feelings.

We just disagree on certain points, and I can not say with any certainly that you are not right.

God Bless, Lynn

[lish1936]

As I read all the comments, I've come back to where I've been on so many questions about the Bible and God's Laws. There are some questions that we can never have definitive answers for this side of Heaven.

When you describe your friend, Lynn, who was obviously born with effeminate characteristics, I
wonder why God allowed that, knowing of His hatred for the sin of homosexuality. God is the maker and giver of life. He knows us even before we are formed, so could He not have prevented that? And yet, we know that sometimes He allows things to happen that He may prove that His strength is made perfect in our weakness. Could homosexuality be one of those "thorns" He gives just as He allows cerebral palsy, mongoloid births, etc?

It seems hard to understand, but perhaps homosexuality does occur at birth. However, as Paul wrote: His grace is sufficient for every situation; even refraining from practicing that which results from being born a homosexual. There may be no answer to this paradox that God created homosexuals, but requires that they refrain from engaging in homosexual acts.

Sometimes we have to content ourselves with: "Oh, what a wonderful God we have! How great are His wisdom and knowledge and riches! How impossible it is for us to understand His decisions and His methods! For who among us can know the mind of the Lord?" Romans: 11:33,34.

Blessings,

Lillian

[lish1936]

P.S. I belonged to a church for eighteen years that was pastored by a man who never married.
It is my sincere belief from what I've observed, (not in behavorisms, but in other areas), had he not been a very sincere believer and lover of God's Word, he could have been a practicing homosexual.

So perhaps it's possible to be born with those tendencies, but remain true to what God demands.

Just a thought.

Blessings,

Lillian

[iRoswell]

That's good to hear. I'm glad we can have engaging conversations without worries.

I know it's difficult when we face issues in life, like the many different diseases in life. My wife is having difficulties right now as she is dealing with erosive osteoarthritis. It's the same as osteoarthritis but also has the inflammation that typically comes with rheumatoid arthritis. I'm very thankful to God for the strength He has given her, and she would tell you that there has been some huge blessings as a result of it. Does she always have a smile? No. But she knows that God loves her immeasurably and she likes to say she doesn't have a sickness, she's just homesick.

Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death. Since we all sin, we can all expect death to come. As a result of our bodies dying, the myriads of diseases and sicknesses are the collateral damage from the curse. On top of that, we also have to deal with all the evil that man can invent to hurt others.

My point in all that is just to say, we know why all these things happen. Why we get sick, have diseases, and ultimately, why we die. It's because of our sins. This life is temporary. But for those of us who have put our trust in the Savior, we can go through all these things, knowing that in the end we have the promise of Revelation 21:4,
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”

[Paula22466]

You know, it just hit me that we are all in the same boat. While I have chosen to sin, I never asked to be a sinner. There was nothing I could have ever done to not be a sinner.

Exactly. Studies have shown some people are born bent toward specific problems (addictive behaviors for example). We all are unique and have our own battles. Whether or not gays are born that way is irrelevant. Christ frees from bondage to all sin.