Once Saved Always Saved?

[Paula22466]

Those who leave often come back and then we know they were once partakers of the faith; thus the principle of the Prodigal Son.

I agree, but this is not who John is referring to in 1 John, he's teaching about the gnostics who were infiltrating the church with false doctrine and leading others astray. John is writing about these teachers who were never genuine although they said they were (1 John 2:4), nor the ones who they took with them. We know this because they left (1 John 2:19).

If someone, not only these ancient gnostics, but false converts today, leave the faith (begin believing heresies) they were never believers to begin with. Not to say they cannot believe in the future, but the Bible gives no evidence of anyone who was a genuine Christian at one time, became a heretic for a time, and then became Christian again. I'm not talking about what we call "backsliders" today (although I'm not sure there is such a thing) - I'm talking about people who outwardly behaved and confessed Christ but never knew Him. Remember what Christ said of those on the Day who will seem bewildered when He says, "I never knew you"?

Why you keep bringing up the prodigal son is somewhat baffling to me because I see the two as apples and oranges. Besides, the prodigal gives no evidence of ever being right with his father, it's not a story about a person who had a relationship with God as Father, became distracted for a time and then was restored. This kid was the lowest of the low, he wanted his inheritance before his father had died which would have been like a complete slap in the face to his father, and the Jews hearing the story would have known that. The prodigal represents a sinner at his worse, squandering his life and all the blessings of God to live with the hogs. He only came home because he had hit rock bottom. The fact that the prodigal was willing to disgrace his father in that way showed he never loved him in the first place. I think the story represents the prodigal as one who, in spite of sinful and lascivious living, can still come to the Father and receive mercy and grace.

[lish1936]

according to 1 John 2:19 - those who leave the faith were never partakers of the faith

I bring up the Prodigal Son and those who stray because of the above blanket statement. In your last post you clarified the word "those" as agnostics, false converts and heretics. I have no problem with that. John was referring to those pretenders. Perhaps I'm guilty of being too literal, but I understood the above quote just as it reads. "Those" is an all encompassing, inclusive word that does not take into account those who leave the faith, but by the grace and mercy of a loving Father return to the faith.

Hence, my original statement, you cannot use 1 John 2:19 to make a blanket statement about
"those who leave the faith" as never having been partakers, unless you explain, as you have now done, who "those" are.

As per the Prodigal Son, we cannot interpret the parable without looking at the entire chapter.

When I read the story and the context( the entire chapter), the relationship between the father and the son is not germain to the story; and I personally wouldn't speculate on it. I do know that In the previous verse before the Parable, Jesus was talking about what takes place in Heaven when a sinner repents. He illustrates this with the Parable, and he also goes to great lengths to put the emphasis more on the son's relationship with the father after His return rather than before the son left.

And if one looks at the entire chapter, the beginning parable is about a sheep (that's what believers are called) who wandered away from the other sheep. The implication is that at one point he was among the other sheep, but wandered away.

In my opinion, the similar parables supports why Jesus used them to illustrate what it means to be restored.

Others may see it differently, and I respect that.

Blessings,

Lillian

[lish1936]

An editoral note to correct my spelling.

germain = germane.

[Paula22466]

Thanks Lillian, I will try to be more clear. Sometimes I'm in a hurry and don't say as much as I ought.

[lish1936]

Thanks Lillian, I will try to be more clear. Sometimes I'm in a hurry and don't say as much as I ought.

No problem. On occasion, that happens to us all; as with me in the following:

When I read the story and the context( the entire chapter), the relationship between the father and the son is not germain to the story;

What I meant to write:

When I read the story and the context( the entire chapter), the prior relationship between the father and the son is not germane to the story;...

Blessings,

Lillian