A way for those who don't use boards to get more feedback

[Shann]

I noticed last week when I was congratulating the highest rankings for the challenge that some stories had only one or two comments. I've also received some notes from people saying it felt unfair that some stories get quite a bit of feedback while others don't. Of course I mention the brick throwing. I have, however, come across stories, after the winners are announced, that do not have one single comment.

I know at one point members of JoE would make sure stories had at least one or two comments, but as people get busy and move on, that has been pushed to the background.

I'd like to start a thread maybe in the water cooler where more people would see it and leave links for stories that don't have much feedback (either because people have just left short comments or there aren't many gold boxes.)

What is your opinion? Would it be a good idea? How likely would you be to click on link and leave a comment?

My biggest fear, I guess, is that people might leave constructive critiques on someone's story who doesn't want that type of comment. Personally, I feel if you are going to enter the challenge, not only should you expect feedback, but want it. However, I have found out the hard way that not everyone feels that way. So any thoughts?

[lish1936]

Shann,
I didn't vote because I didn't see my choice. If comments are sparse on any given article, I can't see how relocating an article via a link to another thread would change anything.

I see more people involved in Buddy groups as the answer to constructive feedback. My push for Buddy groups almost borders on religious fervor. Left to me, it would be a requisite for submittiing to the Challenge, or heaven help me, being a member.

It's at the Buddy level that articles are more comprehensively critiqued, and a better product results to submit to the Challenge for additional comments. The Buddy system is a more realistic approach to feeding the feedback monster (sorry for the redundancy), not another layer of commitment.

Just my .05

Lillian

[Shann]

I so agree! I do wish we could get more people into buddy groups and I often will suggest that though the problem was I'd be asked to be buddies and critique as many as 15 entries in one week. I try to get them into groups, but there only seems to be just a couple out there and they both have more members than they think they can handle.

I have been trying to pair newbies with other newbies, but I'm sure you see the problem there so I have started asking more experienced members to take on buddies but often the newbie is hesitant to do something with someone they don't know well.

I can't tell you how many people have asked for a crit group on that thread and have received no answer so decide they will leave the site, so I agree to help the best i can. It's hard for me to turn down people, but one person doing 15 buddies is not only crazy but unfair to people who don't have a buddy.

[Gentle1]

Well, several months ago, when I was coming back to the Challenge after quite a while away and was a bit "nervous" about writing again, I got on the board here and said I'd like a "buddy," but no one has ever replied. It's not easy to be part of a group when no one wants to partner with you! I'm okay about it now, but felt "left out" at first.

Also, I read and comment on the "brick throwers" because they are reading and commenting on mine. I do read some others, too, but make the "brickies" my priority. They are taking time for my piece, so I want to reciprocate. I usually congratulate the winners each week, too, and have noticed some entries with few comments, but those are people who have never commented on my work either.

I'm not sure how to vote on this, but tend to think if they really want comments, they'd be brick throwing or making time to read and comment themselves on several articles.

[Shann]

There are people who never come to the boards. I know I am so blessed by comments and I just want everyone to feel that way. My biggest concern is right now the entry numbers have doubled then what they were and we need to keep those people coming back and the best way to do that is to
Leave comments.

[lish1936]

I got on the board here and said I'd like a "buddy," but no one has ever replied. It's not easy to be part of a group when no one wants to partner with you! I'm okay about it now, but felt "left out" at first.

So sorry to hear that. There are seven members in my Buddy group, and while some do not participate on a regular basis, there's always at least one or two responses when a review is requested.

I also think time is a serious factor for many. I left a review on a lst level entry, and between reading it and making substantive comments, it took almost two hours. I cannot read an article once, and then remember all of the suggestions I want to make. Besides, the comment section has a time limit. To make sure I don't lose any of my comments, I often have to copy and paste before reviewing the rest of the article. This is a computer related problem, but significant for those who don't have a lot of time.

That's another possible reason why there are few in-depth comments. It's a matter of not enough time to write reviews while finding time to write your own article each week.

Blessings,

Lillian

[tomoral]

The problem with being in a buddy group for me is people becoming offended when you offer a suggestion, or they take what you think as a better way as an affront to their writing.(and I don't mean the person I am working with now, and she knows who she is) The problem I see in placing people's articles in the water cooler for them is that if a lot a people start to critique and tell what they think is wrong, the writers take it the wrong way and leave as well.

On the other hand, Shann and Lish and some others are overloaded with requests for help. I will take another stab at it, if anyone wants my help. All I can do is tell them the way I would do it.

Just sayin'

Blessings

[RedBaron]

I think it would be best to send an email to members to remind them that the forum exists and let them know how to register and post. Mention that if they are seeking more feedback for their work, it's a good idea to get to know folks at the forum and how "Brick Throwing" works.

If I were a new person, I might not like having my article blindly linked to by someone else.

As far as people getting offended at suggestions, if someone is ASKING for them, and we give them in a helpful, loving way, they shouldn't get offended at all. I've never been offended by any of the comments/suggestions I've gotten. I've found some on one particular challenge entry quite humorous, as they didn't know that what I wrote was a true story.

We have to remember that the rest of the writing world is extremely cut throat and vicious. FW really is a haven in the world of writing. It's a place to learn and grow safely. It's a chance to toughen up before taking a chance on the big bad world of rejection.

Because of FW and the confidence I got here, I've been able to make money with my writing and editing. I've been able to go get various jobs, including the one I have now with a small, local publishing company (It's still challenging, because of the clients we have -some have the American Idol syndrome - well meaning family/friends have told them that their writing is good, when it really isn't. They may have an amazing story, but their writing isn't. But that's why the publisher hired editors lol.)

[lish1936]

On the other hand, Shann and Lish and some others are overloaded with requests for help. I will take another stab at it, if anyone wants my help. All I can do is tell them the way I would do it.

Lynn, I think you might have hit on a really neat idea. What' d'ya think, Shann? Instead of a new Water Cooler thread, why not have a new thread that lists the names of anyone who is willing to review articles (give feedback) before they're submitted - something like a collective Buddy Group that is available to anyone. The articles could be equally divided, so no one person is overloaded. Perhaps those who are active in the Jewels of Encouragement could also participate.

This thread would be strictly for Challenge article previews/reviews, and not for Regular articles; but would also not exclude the yellow boxes, or brick-throwing - just a better brick.

Lillian

[RedBaron]

The buddy group thing is a touchy issue. We used to have them, and it got to be too much. Deb said no more. But now, she's relented.

I think the intent is to just catch simple mistakes, not to overly edit them. But to point out little issues. Then the person can rewrite and submit. I don't think it's intended to be a big editing session.

We also can't have the articles posted on the forum for the Challenge.

[tomoral]

I'm with Lish, I would put my name in a thread like that. As long as the writers are looking for help with their articles, and not just someone to tell them how great they are. I mean, compliment the good things but also point out weak spots in their grammar or punctuation, etc. Like Red Baron said, not to overly edit the story or feelings they want to share with their writing.

[lish1936]

I think the intent is to just catch simple mistakes, not to overly edit them. But to point out little issues. Then the person can rewrite and submit. I don't think it's intended to be a big editing session.

We also can't have the articles posted on the forum for the Challenge

Shari,

What you've written is exactly what I had in mind... "pointing out issues." That takes place now among my group. Also, no one would post their article prior to Brick throwing time. It would be done just as it's being done today. I review my buddie's drafts via my e-mail address. So anyone who might be interested in being a part of collective Buddy Group would have to forward their e-mail address via a PM.

Even if this idea doesn't materialize, I hope this clears up your concerns.

Blessings,

Lillian

[RedBaron]

I know you guys know that, but just wanted to be clear for any new folks

It's a good idea. I know I'm in a buddy group, but I'm rarely able to do much.

[lish1936]

Just to add... Whenever I review someone's draft, I always add: "Please feel free to accept or reject any comments."


Lillian

[Shann]

I like that idea, but is it really much different from the thread looking for buddy groups? Plus the problem is people who don't go to the boards wouldn't see them. But I do like it, provided my name and just one or two others aren't the only ones on there.

It also really bothers me when I go through to announce the highest rankings that there are some entries that only have one comment and times when I've been in the hospital, I've come out and gone back over them and been horrified to find several articles with not one single comment. That's the real problem I want to solve. Is to find a way for those who might only have their article read 10 or 15 times a chance for it to get more exposure.

So here's another idea. How about during the mini break, if I contacted the people who don't have much feedback, if they would like to have me link their story to a thread on the board and ask people who have extra time because there is no upcoming articles if they would mind clicking on a few and leaving some feedback. Also people hopefully would learn about it over time and go leave a link there so I wouldn't have to do all of the linking. I think those two ideas would solve a lot of problems and help encourage those silver members to up their membership.

I'm really happy, if others think they are good ideas.